Re: Not Just the US With Education Problems

On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:35:14 -0700, Bob Casanova <nospam@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 12:24:12 -0700, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by Vernon Balbert
<vbalbert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

On 6/6/2008 4:38 AM, tgdenning@xxxxxxxxxxxxx went clickity clack on the
keyboard and produced this interesting bit of text:
On Jun 6, 7:10 am, "alwaysaskingquestions"
<alwaysaskingquesti...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<tgdenn...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:c2998cc9-3166-4b7f-9472-0ee59c142e05@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



On Jun 6, 4:50 am, "alwaysaskingquestions"
<alwaysaskingquesti...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<tgdenn...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:e4782473-3eab-4b4f-8621-7f9c1c621149@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Jun 5, 1:46 am, Thurisaz the Einherjer <MAILTOsecret...@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
tgdenn...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx:
What are 'logarithmic maths that you do in your head'? And what
engineers use such skills?
Why is is so difficult for people to be explicit about what they
mean
by 'advanced mathematics'?
Hey I wrote that posting pretty spontaneously, okay? If my example
doesn't
make much sense, so be it. You know what I mean, don't you? :)
I really had two points: One was simply that I *don't* know what you
might mean by 'logarithmic maths' so I was curious---I didn't think
that anyone did much about logarithms anymore ( even 20 ya), and I
thought maybe this was a case of 'the other English language' at
work. ;-)
The other was the serious one which is that despite math and science
being all about precision of language, when people talk about
education in those subjects they tend to be incredibly vague. To have
a serious discussion, it really does matter what engineers need to be
able to do, and what voters need to be able to do, and so on.
This is an example of how a potentially mind numbing subject can be made
interesting; when my son was a teenager, he detested maths but he was mad
into guitars; he decided to make his own guitar for a school project and
was
totally fascinated when I showed him how the spacing of the frets are a
logarithmic scale and went on to show him how all music is actually
logarithmic.
Excellent example. The contrast is between what I (and others
obviously) learned, which was how to employ logarithms for
calculation, even though we were never likely to use them, and a
comprehensive examination of the delights of mathematics associated
with something that is, yes, *relevant* to a young person.
The point is that we don't have people learning the 'skills' involved
in finding numbers in a table and interpolating to increase the
accuracy of the results. That doesn't contribute to understanding
anything, or if it does in some minor way, whatever that understanding
is can be developed in other ways.
Some of it may have to do with personal inclination - I have always been
fascinated with both puzzles in general and with knowing how things work; in
my first job - just before the introduction of desktop calculators - I had
to learn how to use a slide rule and was thought it was a fantastic
invention.

Yes, I earned my nerd status with a little plastic slide rule that was
always in my shirt pocket, I think even before high school. (No pocket-
protector though.) But again a great example---a good slide rule
could 'do logarithms' to 3-4 decimal places sometimes, which was more
than enough. A current parallel might be students learning 4 ways to
'solve' quadratic equations or find trigonometric solutions when their
$12 calculator can do it in an instant.

When I was in high school physics, my teacher had a race where he'd use
a slide rule and we'd use our calculators to try to get the same answer.
He won every time. I used both a calculator and a slide rule. I had
a programmable calculator and it was more fun to use, but the slide rule
was pretty nifty and I enjoyed using it. <sigh> Where can you find one
now? And can you find a graphing slide rule? ;)

Well, I still have two - a Dietzgen log-log decitrig and a
Pickett dual-base speed rule, both 10". But I use my HP 15C
quite a bit more often than either... ;-)

I still have my father's Dietzgen drawing compass set from about 60
years ago (another quality product that has no demand, having been
replaced by computer printing these days), but I broke the cursor on my
Pickett slide rule lost its cursor a number of months before I spent
$50.00 on my first four function calculator.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Not Just the US With Education Problems
    ... that anyone did much about logarithms anymore, ... The point is that we don't have people learning the 'skills' involved ... But again a great example---a good slide rule ... I used both a calculator and a slide rule. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Not Just the US With Education Problems
    ... that anyone did much about logarithms anymore, ... The point is that we don't have people learning the 'skills' involved ... $12 calculator can do it in an instant. ... a slide rule and we'd use our calculators to try to get the same answer. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Not Just the US With Education Problems
    ... that anyone did much about logarithms anymore, ... The point is that we don't have people learning the 'skills' involved ... I earned my nerd status with a little plastic slide rule that was ... I used both a calculator and a slide rule. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Fings we was lernt rong in skool (Was Basrawis n all that cop)
    ... ??>> this age of the calculator. ... ??>> mathematical principles of logarithms is essential ... T> My first-year physics class in university were the last ... I still remember the day my father showed me how to use his slide rule when I was about 11. ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: Biggest Barnacle On Heinleins Memory?
    ... A true story: my elder niece came home from ... grade school one day and announced that the school required she have a ... My brother asked her what functions the calculator ... quality slide rule he had purchased cheap soon after the market for ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
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