Re: Ben Stein: Win His Career

On May 30, 4:01 pm, "Suzanne" <shil...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Vernon Balbert" <vbalb...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:jjf%j.5505$Ri.4650@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



On 5/28/2008 8:38 AM, Suzanne went clickity clack on the keyboard and
produced this interesting bit of text:
"Chris Krolczyk" <chriskrolc...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:c619e8a2-0a1b-42b3-b7bc-beeceb3b56a7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On May 22, 12:51 am, "Suzanne" <shil...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

If scientists come to a place where they can see
that an intelligent being in some other location in
the universe actually was responsible for life forming
on the earth,
Many scientists - including biologists who fully accept
the ToE  as valid - are practicing Christians, so I
fail to see your point about how "scientists need
to come to a place".

Oh, I see. Then you must not have seen comments
from people saying that if someone is a creationist
they can't be a true scientist.

My observation has been that in this group the term creationist refers to
somebody who believes that the earth was created in six 24 hour days.
Whether that happened 4,000 years ago or 4.5 billion years ago is simply a
way of dividing them into those that believe in a young earth or an old
earth.  Creationists also do not believe that the theory of evolution
accurately depicts how life was created.  Creationists believe that life
was created as we see it today and that it did not evolve.

Scientists who are religious who do subscribe to the theory of evolution
are not considered creationists.  They may be religious but they also
don't believe in the literal interpretation of the bible.

There are scientists who are what you are calling relgious,
who do believe evolution, who also do believe creation.

How do they "believe" creation, exactly? It can't be
a literal sense, since those two interpretations are
mutually contradictory in that case.

Some of them do believe evolution to an extent, but they
do not believe life was started without that God started it.

This still doesn't amount to "believing creation"; you can
term it deism or theistic evolution, but it still doesn't amount
to the literal interpretation of Genesis that AiG or the
ICR insists on, much less anyone else who terms
themself a young earth creationist.

I wonder if they will ever see that it's
possible that this "alien" being's name might be
already known on earth as "God?"
Nope. A space alien is a space alien, unless you're
asserting that they have powers on par with what
most people *assume* is godlike. There used to be
an amusing little game that ID advocates played
(before they descended into pathetic whitewashes
like _Expelled_) where they toyed with the idea
that life on earth *could* have been created by aliens,
but they soon dropped that in favor of the choruses
of "Goddidit" they've resorted to as of late.

God is not a "space alien," in the sense that people
think of a space alien as being. But he is alien to
someone that does not know that God is the creator.
He also is not from earth, but existed before there
was an earth or a universe.

You're mixing things up here, or so it seems to me.  The word alien
strictly means something from the outside.  How you define the outside is
up to you.  Ants in my house are aliens.  I do not want them in my house,
they weren't in my house at one point and I strive to keep them out.
People who live outside the U.S. who have come here are aliens. The
rabbits in Australia are aliens.

God is, by definition, an alien.  He may have created this world (I don't
believe this but this is the subject at hand) but he remains outside it.
He may interact with it, but Richard Dawkins interacts with people in the
U.S. but he remains an alien to the U.S.  (I would be wrong if he has dual
citizenship in the U.S. and the U.K.  I do not know if he does, but it
does not seem likely.)

God lives in this place called heaven which is where a lot of dead people
end up.  Heaven is outside this world and therefore God is an alien.

I'm not missing anything. What I am saying is that some people
that believe in evolution, are saying that someone outside of this
earth possibly caused life to begin on earth. Yet, don't recognize
that this someone could be God.

You're starting to put words in other peoples' mouths, here;
how do you *know* that people don't term this outside source
of life "God"? This is completely acceptable from the viewpoints
of both deism and theistic evolution, and yet you insist that
they - in a fairly wide assertion - insist that they don't term
it God, whoever that "they" is.

They are admitting that an
intelligent being did start life, but they fail to acknowledge that
it is God. In other words, they don't want God to exist.

Okay, now I'm getting irritated. First, you assert that
nobody - or close to it - who believes that a higher
intelligence may've had a hand in the beginning of life
on earth believes that it might be God. Then you
turn around and state that your blanket assumption
on what those people actually believe universally
signifies them as being akin to atheists since
"they don't want God to exist" (!), which is *another*
blanket assumption of what those people actually
may or may believe.

Is there any argument that a higher intelligence might've
sparked life on earth but did *not* create individual
species which is acceptable to you as being in line
with actual religious belief? If not, you're insulting
the faith of a whole bunch of people who think
otherwise.

-Chris Krolczyk




.

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