Re: What's with the personal attacks on Darwin?

On Fri, 9 May 2008 16:30:43 -0700 (PDT), Ray Martinez
<pyramidial@xxxxxxxxx> enriched this group when s/he wrote:

On May 8, 8:19 pm, "Dana Tweedy" <reddfr...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Ray Martinez" <pyramid...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:c5d26f27-11f2-460a-b892-978acd625c44@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On May 8, 7:27 am, hersheyh <hershe...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

snip

Science (*all* science), as a way of knowing the "empirically
observable" world and understanding how the "empirically observable"
world works, necessarily ignores, as contrary to its core
methodological requirements, the use of "non-empirical" explanations,
be they merely currently unobservable or inherently unobservable.

[snip]

A lot of verbiage to say so little.

If ID is true then evolution is false.

Well, no, that's not what Howard was saying.



Of course ID is true: the biological world looks designed because it
is designed and its complexity, which is beyond all computation, along
with its diversity, corresponds to Divine Mind and Intelligence.

How, exactly do you determine what "corresponds to Divine Mind and
Intelligence"?    

The observation of breathtaking design

But what "design" Dishonest Ray? I don't see any.

and organized complexity seen
in nature as a whole an in each organism. Nature corresponds to the
work of the Genesis Creator.

What, exactly do you have to compare it to?  

Man's ability.

Man has only been using technology for a small part of the Earths long
history. Just think what we will be building in a few hundred years
time.

Show me any miniature complexity designed by man then compare it to
any IC system:

IC systems are very simple.

the massive difference = Divine power and intelligence.

For which there is zero evidence.

How can any
mortal know what the "Divine Mind and Intelligence" is, and what corresponds
to it?    

The Bible tells us the mind of God.

Which god?

It's His eternal word. Do you
realize how many passages in Scripture presume to tell us what a
person was thinking? Unless the content was inspired by God these
Books are lies.

Well we all know the lies of the bible are legion.

But hundreds of millions of persons recognize the
Bible to be the highest truth.

And many more do not.

Get over it Dishonest Ray. Your favourite book of religious fiction is
no better than any other.


The appearance of design, and the complexity of life is not
beyond the ability of natural processes to produce.  

Oxymoronic assertion.

Yours are.

There is no such thing as "natural processes."

Silly little troll.

They only exist by
assertion and are unavailable to be observed in the function claimed
in their behalf: creating species.

Observed, catalogued and proven.

All observations are after the
alleged fact.


Since those processes
have been observed, and "Divine Mind and Intelligence" has never been
observed, it's more reasonable to ascribe the appearance of design, and
complexity of life to natural processes.


Atheism.

No, evolution.

The
evidence does not support the claim that evolution has occurred.

You have made this claim, but you've shown you don't know what the evidence
is, or what evolution actually says, why should anyone take your word for
it?

Under
scrutiny descent is falsified by homology itself, which is completely
overstated.

How, exactly does homology refute common descent?

As for causation, evolution has none.

Except for variation and selection, both of which have been directly
observed.

Matter and animals
occupying the same time and space do not have any ability to act as a
mechanism propelling transmutation.

Ray, animals are made of matter, and they are only a part of the diversity
of life.   "Transmutation"  of individuals is not a claim of evolutionary
theory, rather it's that the genetic make up of populations change over
generations.   Genetic change produces changes in morphology, again, in
populations, not change in idividuals.

Assertions to the contrary are
predetermined by the parameters of Materialism-Naturalism, or in other
words, asserting nature to contain naturally occurring causation
phenomena does not mean that it is so, it is only so because Divine
causation is ruled out a priori.

Ray, have you swallowed a dictionary?   You are using a lot of big words,
which you obviously don't understand.   Your own false beliefs about what
material forces are capable of does not limit actual material forces from
doing what they do.   While it's true that asserting natural causes doesn't
make them so, asserting that they don't happen, doesn't make them not
happen.


Insults indicate the inability to address or refute.

And yet your inability to address or refute is very well known.


  Natural causes have been directly observed to produce genetic change in
populations, over time.   No "divine causation" has ever been observed, so
appeal to "divine causation" is not "ruled out" but rather not "ruled in",
as it's not something that's been known to produce any results.


A "Christian" advocating Atheism.

Nope. Science.

This renders material or natural
causation to be the ultimate "just-so stories."

Except that "material or natural causation" has been observed.   "Divine
causation" has never been observed.



Any objective assessment of reality must conclude that matter does not
contain the properties of Mind or its Power.

Well, since human beings are matter, obviously that assertion is false.
Humans (at least some of them) do have a "mind" and "power".    There's no
physical evidence of any "mind" other than that in material beings.   ( I
believe that a supernatural intelligence exists, but I know that there's no
evidence of such)

Evolution asserts this
ultimate irrationality insulting everyones intelligence.

Again, Ray, you don't have any intelligence to insult.    Asserting that
natural processes produce natural events is hardly irrational, or insulting
to the intelligence of anyone actually posessing intelligence.

DJT

Ray

--
Bob.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Whats with the personal attacks on Darwin?
    ... corresponds to Divine Mind and Intelligence. ...     ... beyond the ability of natural processes to produce. ... Oxymoronic assertion. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Whats with the personal attacks on Darwin?
    ... corresponds to Divine Mind and Intelligence. ...     ... beyond the ability of natural processes to produce. ... Oxymoronic assertion. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: --- --- Irrational solutions
    ...    about m,n but not a declaration of their types in the hypothesis. ... specifications for the missing declarations, your assertion is false, ... Here's one counterexample, done with one eye ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: --- --- Irrational solutions
    ...    about m,n but not a declaration of their types in the hypothesis. ... specifications for the missing declarations, your assertion is false, ... Here's one counterexample, done with one eye ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: --- --- Irrational solutions
    ...    about m,n but not a declaration of their types in the hypothesis. ... specifications for the missing declarations, your assertion is false, ... No, they are _all_ exact. ...
    (sci.math)