Re: What is Intelligent Design?

On May 9, 7:54 am, TomS <TomS_mem...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"On Fri, 9 May 2008 00:05:33 -0400, in article
<4823cd8d$0$7051$4c368...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, sprocket stated..."





On 2008-05-07 09:05:38 -0400, Vernon Balbert <vbalb...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> said:

What is Intelligent Design?

This question is directed towards the adherents to ID. I keep seeing
people arguing in such a way that makes this seem like a question whose
answer is situational. So I want to lock it down: What, exactly, is ID
to somebody who believes in ID?

From what I understand, part of it is a formula to calculate
probability of given object or 'information system' as they like to
call it, as a product of intelligence. Nevermind, that in all
occurances where we can actually determine intelligent causation, we
know or assume possible 'designers' already, how they are inclined to
behave, what they can build, and what natural causes, if any, could
lead to similarly created objects. And that somehow, we should just
go ahead and rule out natural causation for the formation of life
because its a waste of time and resources.

They like to compare ID to systematic flaking, where we look at certain
characteristics of a rock to determine if a rock was chipped for use as
a primitive tool by ancient man or a primate, or formed naturally by
erosion, rock slides, etc.

But ...

I have never seen an advocate of ID propose a calculation
of the probability of a given object as a product of
intelligence.

At best, they propose a calculation of the probability of
a given object as a product of evolution.

Never the probability of their "alternative".

They remain satisfied if their calculation of the probability
of evolution is sufficiently small. (Whether or not that
calculation is accurate, that's another question.)

--
---Tom S.
"As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand."
attributed to Josh Billings

Moreover, in every case where they actually make a calculation, it is
under the assumption that evolution works as if one were assembling a
747 by a tornado. *All* such calculations can disprove is the idea
that 747s can be assembled in a tornado. But who thinks that 747s are
assembled by tornados or that evolutionary changes in genomes occur by
randomly assembling entirely new genomes from scratch? Assembling
entirely new genomes from scratch (either randomly or by design) is
the opposite of evolution. Assembling entirely new genomes from
scratch is creation.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Probability, Evolution, and Atheism
    ... probability of flipping a coin 1000 times, and having heads come up at ... disagree that the calculation is trivial. ... most of the state space is never tried during evolution ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: What are the odds?
    ... make a predictive probability calculation. ... is not the model of evolution that scientists deal with. ... In other words, if you know the gap size ahead of time, only then can ... I am saying that doing a GIGO calculation like yours makes stupid ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: What is Intelligent Design?
    ... probability of given object or 'information system' as they like to ... characteristics of a rock to determine if a rock was chipped for use as ... I have never seen an advocate of ID propose a calculation ... a given object as a product of evolution. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: What is Intelligent Design?
    ... probability of given object or 'information system' as they like to ... characteristics of a rock to determine if a rock was chipped for use as ... I have never seen an advocate of ID propose a calculation ... a given object as a product of evolution. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Is this guy familiar with Sean Pitman?
    ... mathematical calculation shows that some routine process is ... deliberately flawed model of evolution devised by Pitman in an attempt ... I doubt Sean has said such a thing. ... that his mathematics could demonstrate is that his model is flawed. ...
    (talk.origins)