Re: Hitler-Nazi's were staunchly anti-Christianity

On Apr 6, 6:26 pm, Glenn <GlennShel...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Apr 6, 4:00 pm, hersheyh <hershe...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Apr 6, 5:44 pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Apr 6, 8:42 am, Tiktaalik <corneliusjmch...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

[snip]

After the attempt to assassinate Adolf Hitler failed in 1944 an
internal bloodbath followed. Peter Yorck was one among many that were
arrested in the conspiracy. After being tortured and brought before
one of Hitler's kangaroo courts - "the People's Court" - presided over
by ex-Bolshevik sadist turned Nazi sadist, Ronald Freisler, he was
demanded upon to tell the court why he refused to join the Nazi
Party.

Yorck replied: "....the totalitarian claim of the State on the
individual which forces him to renounce his moral and religious
obligations to God."

Hours later piano wire was fastened around his neck and he was hoisted
into the air on a meat hook [by persons who wore belt buckles
asserting God was with the Nazi Party] ("The Rise and Fall of the
Third Reich" - 1959:1071, William L. Shirer).

The lay evolutionists who believe the Nazi Party to be genuinely
religious and not evil liars is explained by the well known pro-
Atheism and anti-Christianity reputation and agenda of evolutionary
theory.

The Nazis were neither genuinely religious (although many Nazis
*thought* they were doing God's work) nor were they genuinely
scientific (although many Nazis *thought* they were) in their ideas.
The Nazi ideology was chock full of contradictory nonsense,
pseudoscientific and pseudoreligious babble, and blind obedience to a
leader.

Who do you expect to convince with this claptrap of yours, Howard? The
Nazi *Party* was in no way a Christian religion

Where does he argue this. It is your straw man.

nor affiliated with
any religion.

The Nazi party was generally supportive of Christians (Protestants and
Catholics) and acted to get their support. When it did not get what
it wanted it was ruthless in it's destruction of the religious
opposition. On the whole like any political regime it had numerous
members who were active Christians. Your appeal to a "No True
Scotsman fallacy" with respect to the Nazi party appears to be because
some of the more dramatic elites including Hitler held contradictory
religious and anti-religious beliefs. Pretty much like you with
respect to your creationist ID anti-evolution drivel and and saying
you believe in science. Contradictory beliefs can and are found in
religions. Indeed it is a dominant characteristic of most religions
of the world according to anthropologist but what do they know.

What individuals thought, if not in complete conformance
with Nazism, was antithetical to the Nazi ideology.

Nazi ideology like all ideologies are not as rigid as your mind.

They wanted no
individual expression of anything, especially that a German was doing
work other than for the benefit of the Reich and Hitler.

And this says nothing substantive about being Christian or not.

Your
characterization of Nazi ideology, religion and science is clearly
biased.

We are in a historical era of reactionary political, religious, and
social thought. Starting in the late sixties and culminating in the
Bush regime. The era has produced not only the neocons, American
imperialism, but a lot of revisionist history to justify its attack on
liberal American values and laws that emerged from hard fought battles
with the dominant elite oriented forces in America. Religion has been
a active participant in this reactionary endeavor. You and Ray
reflect the very worst of this revisionism. It is empty of empirical
and contextual understandings and has the classic motifs of
propaganda. The propaganda, like yours, is written in categorical
language, takes sides, and promotes conservative (i.e. supportive of
the dominant power group) values.

Much of what the Nazis did certainly appeared contradictory
and nonsense.

Very much the consequence of power hunger leaders with wanting
immediate results and didn't care about the niceties of democracy.
You can even see this in the Bush regime. Think Cheney and SO!

But their ideology was not religious in any significant
way, and if at all, may have included a half assed plan by a few to
eventually return to ancient German paganism.

Eisenhower "I don't care what you believe as long as you believe."
Kennedy "no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be
Catholic) how to act"! Etc. You don't have to have any specific
religious ideology for being viewed as religious and for getting
religious support. Further you and Ray need to read Emile Durkheim
or at the least some secondary interpretation of his approach to
religion and get up to snuff on religions historical relationship to
the larger society.

Their ideology was on
the other hand surely scientific and methodical, whether or not you
determine it now to be not "genuine".


No it was not any where scientific, very far from being scientifically
methodological (there were some exceptions). It was bizarrely
experimental and involve human subjects which was not hidden in the
larger German society except for the volume.

The last may be the most
hilarious among all the lame claims you and many others have made in
this thread.

If you, as you do, call ID "genuine" science then this explains your
hilarity and persistent ignorance. Your inability to identify
legitimate science is noted. That they said they were scientific was
like the Christian claim. It is all that was need to justify their
immoral behavior but science doesn't motivate the German people to act
inhumanely, unfortunately the pervasive Christian antisemitism,
supported it far more than the average citizens scientific beliefs or
those professed by the Nazi leaders. Lastly nationalism in the form
of jingoistic patriotism coupled with remnants of 18th and 19th
Christian millenarianistic thought provide additional motivation for
the horror that was Nazi Germany.


RAM


.

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