Re: In the News: A Texas-Sized Battle: Evolution vs. ID

Frank J wrote:
On Mar 18, 8:02�am, Ron O <rokim...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 16, 8:19�am, Frank J <f...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:





On Mar 15, 11:10�pm, Ron O <rokim...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 15, 7:29�pm, jspace...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

From the article:
----------------------------------------------------------
By Gailon Totheroh
CBN News Science & Medical Reporter
March 17, 2008

CBNNews.com - No state in the country has remained untouched by the
controversy over the teaching of evolution in public schools.

Most states have squelched criticism of the theory and the alternative
theory of Intelligent Design. �But the issue just will not go away --
in places like Texas.

When Texas chooses a textbook, the rest of the nation listens and
other states often follow their lead. �Even California, a traditional
textbook bellwether, has lost influence because their education funds
are depleted because of misspent tax funds.

This means national attention in the looming state battle over science
and health textbooks that teach evolution. �Attorney Cynthia Dunbar is
serves on the Texas State Board of Education.

"What we want is for our students to be taught critical thinking
skills, to be taught the scientific method," Dunbar explained to CBN
News. �"And what rises to the level of being deemed a theory -- teach
the strengths and weaknesses of any and every theory."

However, most scientists say evolution has no weaknesses.

"Evolution is probably the most successful and impressive scientific
theory of all time," said Dr. Lawrence Krauss, a physicist at Case
Western Reserve. �"It has been tested over and over and over again."

New Movie Challenges Darwinian Theory

A new motion picture will be released in April that challenges that
idea. The movie is titled Expelled. �It stars actor Ben Stein.

In one scene from the movie, Dr. David Berlinski talks about Darwin's
theory. "One of my prevailing doctrines about Darwinian theory is:
'Man, that thing is just a mess. It's like looking into a room full of
smoke," he says.

Berlinski is a mathematician and philosopher. �He has taught at
Stanford, Rutgers, and the University of Paris.

"Nothing in the theory is precisely, clearly, carefully defined and
delineated," he said. �"It lacks all of the rigor one expects from
mathematical physics. �And mathematical physics lacks all the rigor
one expects from mathematics. So we're talking about a gradual descent
down the level of intelligibility until we reach evolutionary
biology."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------����---------

Read it athttp://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/338668.aspx

J. Spaceman

Berlinski is a strange bird. �I get the feeling that he is only in it
for the money. �He has claimed that he never bought into the ID junk,
but he remained a fellow after the Discovery Institute ran the bait
and switch on the Ohio rubes. �All he does is recycle the old
scientific creationist rhetoric that failed decades ago. �It is as if
he isn't really trying, and just going through the motions. �What
serious intellectual would remain a fellow at the Discovery Institute
after the ID debacle. �Especially a person that supposedly saw ID for
the bogousity that it was. �It is hard to believe that a person that
would claim that they never bought into the ID scam, while his fellow
fellows were intent on running the teach ID scam, would not see it as
the scam that it was. �What did he think every time the Discovery
Institute ran the bait and switch on any rube that believed them about
the "science" of ID?

Ron Okimoto

I've probably said it before, but not only is it instructive to
juxtapose the claims of the DI with those of classic creationist
outfits (and similarly those of different classic creationist
outfits ) but also to juxtapose the individual quotes of various DI
fellows. Not - repeat not - to find the similarities. That's been done
to death. But rather to find the deep disagreements and internal
confusion. Berlinski, Johnson, Nelson and a few minor players have all
admitted at one time or another that there is no science to ID. But we
can't depend on them to all join in unison in declaring it, instead of
pretending otherwise every time they find a new audience of clueless
rubes. It's up to us.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sometime after Dover Stephen Meyer was speaking at one of the
Discovery Institute's dog and pony shows sponsored by some religious
organization and Meyer admitted that teaching intelligent design was
"premature" at this time. �That is as close to some honest admission
that the guy that is now a vice president of the Discovery Institute
has come to admitting that they ran a dishonest scam for a decade.
I've seen quotes by West admitting that intelligent design was "not
ready for primetime." �To West's credit I recall that the "primetime"
quote came before the Dover fiasco, but what did West ever do with his
knowledge that ID didn't make the grade? �How can you be assistant
director of the ID scam unit of the Discovery Institute and function
with that kind of knowledge? �I believe that West is now codirector of
the ID scam unit of the Discovery Institute, and ID still isn't ready
for primetime. �Florida just demonstrated that.

The Discovery Institute is literally running a dishonest bait and
switch scam. �They are still using intelligent design as the bait, but
when they catch a rube they run in the switch. �The saddest thing is
that a lot of times the rubes take the switch.

Where are the web notices that teaching ID is premature, or not ready
for primetime? �The vice president of the Discovery Institute knows
this fact about intelligent design, so why isn't that information
disseminated to the public the same way that they disseminate their
bogus ID propaganda? �Why don't they have a web notice up that clearly
tells anyone looking into the issue that intelligent design is not
ready for primetime? �In it they could describe why ID never made the
grade, where they have to work on it and what they plan to do. �All
they are doing right now is lying to a lot of people about the wonders
of ID, but their supporters don't expect anything better out of them.
How sad is that?

Ron Okimoto

The "teaching ID is premature" meme has not caught on because the
masses and the media equate ID with "teach the controversy." And to my
knowledge, no major IDer ever said that TTC was premature. Even though
they know that it is.

Pardon my playing the "armchair futurist," but I think that decades
from now people will see "ID itself" as rather quaint - much like they
react to flat-earthism now. ID is an excellent meme for the personal
computer age (1980s to present), as the image of a designer sitting at
a CAD terminal has superseded that of the one actually doing the grunt
work of actually building the contraption. But even when the ID scam
was forming in the '80s, surely some promoters were worried that
someday people might start asking how, where and when those designs
were translated into functioning biological systems. Yet,
astonisingly, to this day almost no one is asking. And the scammers
are a step ahead of us by even removing discussion of design itself
from class (though keeping it front and center in the media). What is
left for classroom instruction is the essential part of what activists
have promoted all along - a carefully crafted misrepresentation of
evolution that exploits common misconceptions about evolution and the
nature of science, promotes unreasonable doubt of evolution, and
facilitates inferences of one's favorite alternative fairy tales -
without drawing attention to *it's* fatal flaws, or fatal
contradictions with other fairy tales.

Come on. Literally everyone knows it is just "scientific creationism"
with the trademark painted over. And to a lot of people that's fine.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: In the News: Expelled Exposes Plight of Darwin Doubters
    ... Darwin's theory of evolution, said speakers at a promotional event ... she should get rid of me," Crocker recalled at the event hosted by the ... advocates of the theory of intelligent design, including Crocker, are ... She obviously got hooked by the ID scam, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: In the News: A Texas-Sized Battle: Evolution vs. ID
    ... controversy over the teaching of evolution in public schools. ... serious intellectual would remain a fellow at the Discovery Institute ... would claim that they never bought into the ID scam, ... organization and Meyer admitted that teaching intelligent design was ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: In the News: Expelled Exposes Plight of Darwin Doubters
    ... Darwin's theory of evolution, said speakers at a promotional event ... she should get rid of me," Crocker recalled at the event hosted by the ... "I believe in creationism, I believe in intelligent design," she ... She obviously got hooked by the ID scam, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: In the News: A Texas-Sized Battle: Evolution vs. ID
    ... controversy over the teaching of evolution in public schools. ... serious intellectual would remain a fellow at the Discovery Institute ... would claim that they never bought into the ID scam, ... organization and Meyer admitted that teaching intelligent design was ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: In the News: Think tank fuels debate on evolution
    ... So he turned to the Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based think tank, ... creationism commonly referred to as intelligent design. ... YEC creationists are the majority of the people supporting ID. ... Discovery Instittute dropped ID as the Wedge and went with the new scam ...
    (talk.origins)