Re: Does violating the laws of physics require intelligence?

In article
<2ca4d7df-a10d-461b-b709-031e30c0ad13@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Christopher Denney <christopher.denney@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 28, 11:14 pm, Treus <treusd...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Timberwoof wrote:
You can philosophize all kinds of angels into existence, but until you
show evidence for them, there's no need to modify the law of gravity?or
the physical brain hypothesis?to include them.

The difference of course is that with gravity we actually (i.e. in the
real world, not just in Candyland) have a description, _exclusively in
terms of observables_ (i.e. without just-so magic), of effects being
produced from causes.

Until you can build me a device that generates gravity, without
recourse to existing sources of gravity, you are unlikely to be able
to sufficiently describe the causes to rule out angels.
You have no idea what causes gravity, you just know it's effects.
We know that there is gravity present around masses, but also some
gravity-like effects from acceleration.
You could say that mass causes gravity, I can say the brain causes the
mind.
You are pretending that we have to have a better explanation for the
cause of the mind than the cause of gravity to rule out magic of some
kind.

I think I may see your problem here, gravity is real simple in it's
effects. Things attract each other etc.
The mind is at least a couple of orders of magnitude more complex;
but, like gravity, we think we know the source, even though we don't
really know the details of what causes it.

I beg to differ.

In the case of gravity we can describe very precisely how it behaves,
but we have not the beginning of a clue about what causes matter to have
the properties of inertia or the bending of space to cause acceleration.

Saying we know how gravity works is like saying I know how this light
dimmer works: here, turn this knob like this and the lamp gets brighter.

In the case of mind, we know in detail each step in the chain of
causality between the molecular level and the consciousness level. We
understand neurotransmitters, neuron interconnections, neural networks,
specialized functions in parts of the brain, communication between parts
of the brain, how systems of the brain's information processing network
interact to create sensations, and how sensations fuse to create the
illusion of consciousness.

Although we do not have any brain's neural network mapped to the level
of neuronal connections (we likewise don't have a complete circuit
diagram of the planet) we have a far greater understanding of what makes
the brain work (and our power and information systems) than we do of the
internal workings of gravity.

Even though we don't understand in nuanced detail the workings of the
mind or brain, there are no phenomena of the mind that cannot be
ascribed to specific functions of the brain.

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ?Chris L.

.

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