Re: Does violating the laws of physics require intelligence?

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:49:47 -0800 (PST), Treus <treusdrie@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

raven1 wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 15:36:09 -0800 (PST), Treus <treusdrie@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
raven1 wrote:


Angels as the cause of gravity is also sufficient, hence the added
criterion of reproducibility.


Which means what in this context?

Angles are sufficient for gravity in the same way the brain (whatever
that is, since you don't have an adequate description of it in this
context) is sufficient for the mind: either one could cause the
effects attributed to it.

I was asking what "reproducibility" meant in this context. I don't
know what you mean by it, and I'm not clear that you do either.



Anyone can reconstruct the inverse square law at will with found
masses.


Which has what to do with "reproducibility"? (And which does not rule
out the involvement of angels, one might note).

That's what the word means. Can you reproduce in the lab the phenomena
of the mind from measurable causes attributed to the brain?

We can observe the phenomena of mind from measurable causes attributed
to any brain you'd care to examine, and we find that the same areas in
each brain are responsible for the same phenomena.

Of course
not. If you could replicate the action of gravity with angels, then
yes, angels would be, in that situation, a sufficient and replicable
explanation of gravity.

That's so bizarre as to defy response.


On what grounds do you conclude that a further agent needs to be
postulated?

The absence of a sufficient and replicable explanation means a further
agent _could_ be involved because the brain cannot, given the current
evidence and omitting all fairytales and wishful thinking, be assumed
to be adequate to produce the mind.

Again, WHY NOT? What reason do you have to suggest that anything
further is required.



Where is your list of measurable causes
through which the brain produces the mind so that someone else can
duplicate the result?


I'm at a loss to guess what you mean by this. Duplicate the result in
what way?

Someone else takes your purported measurable causes and arrives at the
same results you did. You don't have such a list of sufficient
measurable causes.

We actually know quite a bit more than you think about how the brain
works. As has been noted elsewhere, we can scan the brain in various
ways, and see what mental function is associated with activity in
which area. This doesn't vary from brain to brain.
---

"Faith may not move mountains, but you should see what it does to skyscrapers..."

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