Re: Evolution and natural selection which is the cause and effect

On Jan 18, 4:03 pm, Seanpit <seanpitnos...@naturalselection.
0catch.com> wrote:
On Jan 18, 12:38 pm, John Harshman <jharshman.diespam...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:





Seanpit wrote:
On Jan 17, 6:28 pm, John Harshman <jharshman.diespam...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Faith is apparently material and obeys natural laws.
I'm curious. Can anyone provide me with a real example of an
intelligence that is not material or that doesn't obey natural laws?

You couldn't tell the difference.  Intelligence is intelligence
regardless of its material or non-material origin.  If materials that
we can in fact identify and recognize with our material minds are
manipulated in certain ways, the conclusion of artifact can be quite
clear - regardless of the actual origin of the intelligent
manipulation.

In short, the concept of "supernatural" is nothing more than a
relative term.  It cannot be distinguished from an intelligent
"natural" agent with access to higher levels of intelligence or
technology.  All we can really say, when we see something that anyone
would call a "miracle" (such as the raising of someone who is known to
be dead and decomposing back to life) is that such a phenomenon
requires a great deal of intelligence and creative power - which could
be achieved, theoretically at least, by a very advanced human-type
intelligence.

So the answer to my question would be "no", then.

The short answer to your question is "you can't tell the difference" -
even though there is clear evidence of very intelligent deliberate
activity in behind many phenomena in nature.

Sean Pitmanwww.DetectingDesign.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So if I understand you correctly you are saying: in order for life to
exist it must be created by an intelligent being of some sort but it
is impossible to tell if that being is supernatural or not.

I would guess that the next step would be to say that any non-
supernatural life would require intelligence to create it, so there
has to be a supernatural intelligence at some point or another that
created life. Correct? Did I missunderstand? Did I read to much into
what what you said implies?

Of course, in order to go that far you'd have to have some pretty
solid evidence that life requires an intelligent creature to create
it. The sort of evidence that leads to verifiable predictions and
publication in journals and all that.

Someone with evidence like that would have no trouble getting
published and publicised, consitering the huge amount of people who
have a vested interest in the social implications of such evidence.
(What with the way it supports their religious views and all). After
all, if a tenure issue can get as much publicity as it did, solid
evidence and theories with a strong mathimatical foundation that made
verifible predictions would be picked up and ran with instantly.

Correct me if I've missunderstood something
lurkerman (who won't be back till monday anyway)

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Evolution and natural selection which is the cause and effect
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    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Atheists support evolution because evolution supports their
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  • Re: Re: Whats the Problem?
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  • Re: Whats the Problem?
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    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Sean loses interest
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