Re: How Our Brains Ignore Unpleasant Facts was: Re: The Reasonable

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:28:38 -0800, Evopeach wrote:

On Jan 9, 11:49 am, Garamond Lethe <cartographi...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 20:39:54 -0800, Evopeach wrote:
On Jan 8, 10:28 pm, Mark VandeWettering <wetter...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 2008-01-09, Evopeach <keaton1...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 8, 1:59 pm, "Tiny Bulcher" <alycid...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Thus cwaeth chris thompson :

On Jan 7, 10:08 pm, Evopeach <keaton1...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jan 7, 1:55 pm, Cory Albrecht <coryalbre...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Augray wrote, on 2008/01/07 13:46:

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:58:28 -0800 (PST), Evopeach
<keaton1...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in
<0e604fb0-

f901-4c35-8922-4eb86198b...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>





:
The resurrection of Christ is one of the most historically
studied events in history and no one no one has a scintilla
of evidence to overturn the reports written by the eye
witnesses all within 60 years of the events.

Then why do the eye-witness accounts contradict each other?

You know,if creationits had the brains God gave my cat,
they'd be able to answer this with modern psychology and
behavioural studies. And that is that humans are utterly
unreliable as witnesses.

I am sure thats the case with all you friends and peers since
their all turdhead evos who propagate lies like space does
radiowaves.

Well let's just trash that American Juris Prudence system
which relies heavily on sworn witnesses, witnesses for leads
in investigations, etc.

My brother-in-law was an NYPD detective for 20 years.  From
what he tells me, he never relied on eyewitnesses if he could
help it. In addition, he routinely solved cases where there
were no witnesses- forensic evidence being that much more
powerful.

Reruns of "Dragnet" are not a good source of information on
police procedure.

As part of my training to be a lay magistrate, we were shown a
film made in the 1980's by the Metropolitan Police. They staged
an incident (an argument, followed by an assault), which was
recorded on CCTV. They then interviewed the witnesses of the
incident (not telling them the assault had been staged), in most
cases immediately afterward, and recorded their statements. It
was amazing how wrong they could be; and interestingly, the
witnesses who made confident, detailed statements were just as
wrong as people who were hesitant and unsure. A month later they
re-interviewed some witnesses, telling them it was for a possible
trial. Again, the statements were recorded. This time, none of
them - not one - recalled the incident correctly.

Uncorroborated eyewitness evidence needs to be taken with a dose
of NaCl. Especially if the eyewitnesses' names and addresses are
unknown, they haven't made any sworn statements, and they all
have a vested interest in presenting a particular account, as in
the Case of the Empty Tomb.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And the vested interst was to get arrested, imprisoned, lose all
they owned and probably executed.

Uh, the argument is not that they were lying.  The argument is that
they are unreliable.  That is demonstratably true.

        Mark- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And the demonstration is?  citations, documents, scholars

Weren't you the one claiming to be quite the theological scholar just a
few posts ago?  I asked who your mentors were, but perhaps you haven't
had time to reply.

Ehrman, Bart D.,  _Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the
Bible and Why_,  HarperOne, 2007.

This is mainstream history written for a popular audience.  If you're
still curious after reading this, he has a large body of more
academically-oriented work, and the citations in both are an excellent
portal into the rest of the field.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Mainstream with agnostics, atheists, evos, and skeptics certanly not
Christian historian scholars.

<grin> How would you know?


"I think Bart is writing about his personal journey, about legitimate
things that bother him," says Darrell Bock, research professor of New
Testament studies at the Dallas Theological Seminary. Like many
Christian scholars who have studied the ancient scrolls, Bock says his
faith was strengthened by the same process that destroyed Ehrman's.

1) Bock doesn't disagree with Ehrman about Ehrman's historical
conclusions. Can you cite someone who does disagree?
2) Ehrman's agnosticism came about because he was unable to find an
answer to the problem of pain, as he details (briefly) in the book, which
makes me doubt that Bock read the book.


Never said theological scholar but a layperson student self taught and
under teaching from some of the best scholars and teachers.

Just review the Dallas Theological Seminary website and add Dr. Bruce
Waltke and you'll get the drift of my theology and mentors.

Did this mentoring involve classes or did you just read the books?

Waltke is an OT scholar, and I find this interesting:

"Waltke adopts a type of literary framework view, that is,
'dischronologized' literary account rather than a strictly historical
account. The narrator's concern is theological rather than historical.
Waltke claims Genesis 1 is not a record of human history since no humans
were present. It is unlike any other account, and bears little
resemblance to modern conceptions of history, thus cannot be seen as
'straightforward or positivistic history (pp 75-76)."

From a rather annoyed review by Andrew S. Kulikovsky of Waltke's
_Genesis: A Commentary_. Based on these snippets, I'd say that Waltke
is well in the mainstream of OT interpretation, and I commend the book to
you.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/tj/docs/
TJv16n2_Waltke.pdf

I'm familiar with the DTS site -- who else have you read? (Post a link
to their bibliography if you have it handy -- I've lost it.)

.

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