Re: Co-optation Today

John Harshman wrote:
Treus wrote:

John Harshman wrote:

Again: an evolutionary tree would produce the sort of data we see,

So would pixie dust.

Is this just you being annoying, or do you really not understand why an
evolutionary tree would naturally produce a nested hierarchy in sequence
data?

Do you realize that you're bass ackwards? The question is how your
data imply your imagined phylogenesis, not the other way around. Pixie
dust will do the latter.

and
we don't know of anything else that could do so.

Argument from ignorance.

This is the way all science works. We can only test theories we have
thought of against other theories we have thought of.

It's *part* of how science works. There is also the requirement of
rigor which you continue to ignore.

Why is this not good
evidence?

It's a good start and a bad conclusion.

When I ask "why", what I mean is for you to give reasons, not make naked
assertions. Is that clear now?

It should be clear to you that I was granting your evidence.

Similarly, fusion would produce the sort of data we get from
the sun, and we know of nothing else that would. And that's all we have.
Why are the two cases different, and why do you accept one and not the
other?

The measurable properties of solar fusion can be formulated
exclusively in measurable terms of necessary effects from sufficient
causes. Not so with your phylogenesis.

How would you know, since you have no idea how phylogenetic analysis works?

Then take the opportunity to make your case. Or do I have to download
some software first?

I sure would like to know who these supposed scientists are who have
admitted to you that penguins quite easily could always have been
penguins. I doubt they really exist.

The subject of penguins wasn't brought up, though maybe I should
mention it next time.

It would be hard for you to mention it next time if you don't know who
the people you were talking to are, or what their specialties might be.
We established you don't know that. Perhaps, since you remember that
penguins were not discussed, you could tell me what was discussed, and
what these unknown people actually admitted. That might be useful.

Basically a subset of what I have been expressing here. No one
admitted anything directly. I drew my own conclusions. Only one person
was interested in perusing the topic and we'll do so next time we
meet. I let the conversation move back to social chitchat which was
the purpose of the meeting.

Why are you so reluctant to tell me anything? You haven't said anything
here, except that nobody actually admitted anything. Apparently you were
able to read their secret hearts anyway. Can you remember what these
supposed scientists' specialities were?

Why are you so fixated on this unrelated matter? The supposed
scientists are managers at a biotech startup, so it seemed like the
right bunch to broach the topic with. I had other things on my mind at
the time than remembering the precise details of their professional
training.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Co-optation Today
    ... data imply your imagined phylogenesis, ... It should be clear to you that I was granting your evidence. ... My case rests on the weight of evidence contained in DNA sequences. ... admitted to you that penguins quite easily could always have been ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Co-optation Today
    ... Could be pixie dust. ... Phylogenesis, like pixie dust, accounts for the data. ... The data itself does lead you to the tree. ... It's hard to imagine what you would consider "founded". ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Co-optation Today
    ... Could be pixie dust. ... Phylogenesis, like pixie dust, accounts for the data. ... The data itself does lead you to the tree. ... It's hard to imagine what you would consider "founded". ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Co-optation Today
    ... Pixie dust has whatever characteristics you want it to have, ... Phylogenesis, though also ad hoc, isn't quite as bad. ... observables in every respect it is necessary to the overall evolution, ... Your phylogenesis differs from solar fusion in both regards, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Co-optation Today
    ... Could be pixie dust. ... Phylogenesis, like pixie dust, accounts for the data. ... The data itself does lead you to the tree. ... It's hard to imagine what you would consider "founded". ...
    (talk.origins)