Re: Sean Pitman's Misleading Statements Regarding Bias and

On Jan 4, 12:58 am, Seanpit <seanpitnos...@naturalselection.
0catch.com> wrote:
On Jan 3, 9:41 pm, Homer Sapiens <ej.spa...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:





On Jan 3, 4:19 pm, Seanpit <seanpitnos...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Jan 3, 12:04 pm, Homer Sapiens <ej.spa...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I wrote: "  On a practical level, we have to do science in
a manner that does not exceed our abililties to analyze evidence,
i.e., look for natural causes. This would also include attempts to
reign in what you are are calling "supernatural" by gaining adequate
understanding to subjugate them to the world of the natural. When you
are calling something supernatural you are simply saying...We don't
understand it yet."
Sean replied:
Not true.  What I'm saying is that the phenomenon in question goes
well beyond what all known non-deliberate processes of nature and it
goes well beyond the capabilities of the best a greatest human minds
as well.  In other words, at the very least its origin required
superhuman intelligence and creative power - natural or otherwise.

My response:

"The requirement of superhuman intelligence is an assumption on your
part with no supporting empirical foundation. We simply do not know.

Sean replied:
I say that the evidence is overwhelming for those who actually look at
it - - just as overwhelming as it is to see someone you know to be
dead brought back to life.

I had written:

In my opinion, the key to the evolution of intelligence lies within
the role that "replication" and replicators fit into the scheme of
natural selection. Even organisms without a central nervous system
(e.g., plants) will respond to their environment (e.g., phototropism)
in a manner that gives the illusion of intelligence. A plants behavior
is regulated by fairly simple chemical reactions that cause a response
in the plant. Plants have no cognitive intelligence since they lack a
nervous system. However, any ability to respond to the environment
provides an incredible advantage to replicating units (i.e.,
replicators). This ability to respond and the cascading successful
effect this has on differential reproductive rates for any replicating
unit is the driving force behind the evolution of intelligence.

Sean replied:
There is no evidence to support this assertion when it comes to
producing novel systems of function, to include nervous systems and
"brains", beyond the 1000aa minimum structural threshold requirement.

I wrote:
Succesful replication is the heart and soul of evolutionary change.


Sean replied:
It is also the problem for evolutionary change since it poses serious
limitations to very low levels of functional complexity.  Random
mutation and function-based selection can only produce very simple
systems - nothing remotely close to a novel system beyond the 1000aa
threshold.

I had written:

Simple chemical reactions that provide the ability to reposnd to the
environment and give the illusion of intelligence may very well
constitute the precursors of the cognitve intelligence that each of us
share as Homo sapiens or our cousins such as Pan troglodytes along
with others. There is no need to invoke a "superhuman" intelligent
designer. It could happen quite naturally."

Sean replied:
You are again invoking the term "natural" to mean "non-intelligent" in
this case.  You yourself equate these two ideas - not me.

Beyond this, you are simply mistaken beyond very low levels of
functional complexity.  The evidence clearly shows a exponential
decline in your proposed evolutionary mechanism with each step up the
ladder of functional complexity. That's the fundamental problem with
the ToE and the non-deliberate non-intelligent naturalistic notions
upon with it is built.

Sean I will not claim expertise in the study of amino acids. However,
if you have this kind of evidence then you should publish it in a peer
reviewed scientific journal whereby it could be reviewed by experts in
this area.


If you think otherwise, please do provide any experimental evidence
demonstrating the real time evolution of any novel system of function
that requires at least 1000 fairly specified amino acid residues
working together at the same time.  Or, present some detailed
statistical analysis as to how such a system could be produced using
random mutation and function-based selection alone - without the input
of pre-existing higher-level information.

Sean Pitmanwww.DetectingDesign.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again I will without hesitation state that I am not an expert on amino
acids. My studies have focused on a different scale of biological
systems (i.e., ecosystems, communities, populations, and individual
organisms). I am educated in cellular biology and biochemistry but do
not consider myself an expert. Based on my generalized knowledge your
claims seem quite extraordinary. Extraordinary and (based on my
limited knowledge) unsupported. Your posting here is not sufficient to
sway me. I encourage you to publish in a peer reviewed journal. I will
also advise you to avoid the use of the term "supernatural" since in
your usage it adds nothing to the discussion other than denoting
something we don't understand. You could other language and not cause
the confusion or clutter that the term "supernatural" conjures up. I
have visions of voodoo, zombies, vampires, ghosts, and werewolves when
I hear the term. You have such a different take on this term that
trying to introduce your defintion will find you miscommunicating with
most people. The term isn't needed so don't confuse the dialogue by
using it.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: OOL I - Manifesto and metatheory
    ... kin altruism in simple chemical replicators would usually ... could conceivably play tit-for-tat with other nearby plants. ... > between two species of replicators. ... Weak mutualism is a relationship between ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: Sean Pitmans Misleading Statements Regarding Bias and
    ... I say that the evidence is overwhelming for those who actually look at ... the role that "replication" and replicators fit into the scheme of ... A plants behavior ... unit is the driving force behind the evolution of intelligence. ...
    (talk.origins)
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