Re: Co-optation Today

On Jan 1, 6:47 pm, John Harshman <jharshman.diespam...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Glenn wrote:
On Jan 1, 11:27 am, Inez <savagemouse...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 1, 10:08 am, Treus <treusd...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Where do we see evidence of an ongoing co-optation process by
observing a living organism with a feature in the transitional state
of having concurrent uses in dissimilar old and new functions?

The more complex the feature, the better.

As I understand it, every creature is either transitional or on it's
way to extinction.  Since mutations invariably occur, absolute stasis
isn't possible.

Not true. There is no evolutionary principle here. Yes, mutations
occur and populations change. But there is no requirement for
speciation to ever occur, nor any reason why a species should go
extinct were separate species not to arise. Stasis seems more the rule
than the exception according to evolutionists. It isn't broken by
extinction or mutations coming and going, it is broken by mechanisms
theorized to cause speciation, such as geographical isolation. Remove
the isolation, you don't automatically get extinction.

Nor does speciation have much if anything to do with transition.

You say that because fossils that are claimed to be transitional can't
always be placed on a species level. Of course it does. PE - periods
of stasis interrupted by rapid change. Rapid not meaning overnight of
course. Were all change transitional (which your understanding here
would allow), there would be *no* periods of "stasis".

The
idea that speciation is required to break stasis is of course the main
element of PE. But PE is not really a live theory, as far as I can tell.
Change may be punctuated (i.e. happens at varying rates), but there is
no reason to suppose it's coincident with speciation, which is the
evolution of reproductive isolation.

However, Inez is wrong. Absolute stasis would be possible if every new
mutation were selectively disadvantageous.

Or advantageous then lost. You and Inez are wrong because stasis is
lack of *evolutionary* change.

http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/ridley/a-z/Stasis.asp
"Stasis is the situation in which evolutionary lineages persist for
long periods without change"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lineage
"Lineage (evolution), group composed of species, taxa, or individuals
related by descent from a common ancestor"

I don't think that "evolutionary lineages persisting" can be
interpreted to mean all animals in a larger group, John. It means
species.
And speciation is evolutionary change, which is not microevolution.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Co-optation Today
    ... Since mutations invariably occur, absolute stasis ... extinction or mutations coming and going, ... theorized to cause speciation, such as geographical isolation. ... claim that molecular evolution doesn't happen during periods of stasis. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: The most serious defect in the evolutionary theory is the absence of transitional fossils.
    ... > transitional fossils. ... > This fact is absolutely fatal to the general theory of evolution. ... The imagined jump from dead matter to living protozoans is a transition ... Doing science does not mean finding some gap in the evidence, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Poor Darwin
    ... > The evidence is of the kind used by someone with an axe to grind. ... > The fossil record does not support this theory and that is what Darwin was ... > Tell me about the evolution from bigfoot to man and how it came about? ... > phyletic evolution accomplishing a major morphologic transition ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Poor Darwin
    ... It is a hangover from the pre-Darwinian view of evolution ... > director of the American Museum of Natural History, ... > phyletic evolution accomplishing a major morphologic transition ... The known fossil record fails to document a single example ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Does similarity indicate descent to have occurred?
    ... reasons why this Grand Mastermind can't be directly detected or contacted ... Imagine if the defense case was that god could have intervened to fake the DNA evidence, fingerprints, confession, and videotape. ... And if you remember, the subject was actually evolution, not trial law. ... We know the stasis is the predominant signal from the fossil record. ...
    (talk.origins)