Re: The Reasonable Minority

Evopeach <keaton1943@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:022a4eb3-4e9a-4c7a-8011-df7052a8fb0b@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

On Dec 10, 5:35 pm, Mark VandeWettering <wetter...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 2007-12-10, Evopeach <keaton1...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

This week I read two books which I found both enlightening and well
reasoned. The first was "The Language of God" by Francis Collins
and "The Design Revolution" by William Demski.

While Collins accepts evolution and an old earth he is also an
evangelical christian and a consumate scientist educated in
physics, chemistry, biology, and medicine. He has little respect
for people like Dawkins.

Demski likewise has significant credentials in math, philosophy,
information theory and yes theology.

Presumably you meant "Dembski". I can assure you that his take on
information theory is at best "creative". His books tend to use
mathematics like drunks use lamp posts: for support, rather than
illumination. It should be noted that he has displayed no particular
knowledge or understanding of _biology_, which you think might be
essential to understanding evolution and evolutionary processes.

I have some scholastic studies and work history in math, information
theory and critical thinking and I find his writing and ideas
consistent with these discliplines as do others more expert than I. If
you have evidence of his incompetence in his areas of degreed study
from excellent universities wouldn't that demean those institutions,
his advisors, committee members and grantors?

These two men are not in agreement intotality but certainly have
respect, honesty, sincerity and good scholarship on their side,

Only half right.

Asserting bad motives, dishonesty, insincereity and incompetence
without a showing is hardly constructive or convincing.

as well as being fine wrtiters and presenters.

Dr. Collins was kind enough to email a very civil and warm response
to me concerning certain questions I have regarding his positions.

As a formal student in the History of Science and associated
discliplines of philosophy, critial thinking and such I am
chagrined that people ignore the history of the last 500 years in
which religion and science were quite well behaved one toward the
other in majority, great thinkers and practioners were integrated
in both endeavors and quite accomplished in both.

Such politesse is more by accident than by design, and occurred
largely because religion dominated thought for much of that time,
effectively supressing dissent from scientists.

Actually the same people were prominent scientists and philosophers
and often theists which a serious student of the history would be well
aware. The record is unimpeachable.





The poles apart, cynical, rabid, outliers which dominate public
debate presently are quite the opposite and not in the strict
tradition of open inquiry, critical thinking, rational debate and
mutual respect that history presents.

For my part I admit to losing my cool in these sorts of forums and
succumbing to a sort of lowest common denominator rhetoric at
times.

I hope to do better.

If B.B.Warfield, Asa Grey, and Francis Collins can find common
ground with their faith and evolution, I should at the least remain
open and well read.

If Remine, Demski, and several others can present well reasoned
arguments for ID I want to consider sincerely those as well.

Perhaps a degree of skepticism would also be warranted, at least
equal to the skepticism that you apply to ideas which happen to run
counter to your own beliefs.

I prefer reading, considering, evaluation by reasoning, and openness
to a broad perspective to skepticism and cynicism.

I expect the closed minded ones in the extreme endpoints of each
side to remain as they are and I can certainly deal with them,
hopefully with respect and understanding...life is rather complex
and personal experiences do shape us all.

I anticipate a day when public discussion is more civil, science
and theology return to the mainstream of history, positions are not
set in concrete, not so self assured, not closed to the possibility
that they may not have all the truth and that some truth is in the
other camp.

You'll have to show that there is some truth in your camp for this to
happen. I don't think following Dembski is a good path to start you
on your journey.

My camp includes Dr. Collins, Dempski, and other reasonable talented
and qualified people from a multidisciplinary prespective. I hardly
think biology has all the answers for how the universe came to be or
how it operates and there is much of science that lies outside such a
narrow field.

Mark- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



Why do you insist on mis-spelling Dembski's name even when the correct
spelling is within the text you are responding to? Is there some hidden
motive at work?

BTW, experts in biology have reviewed Dembski's understanding of biology
and he gets poor marks. Experts have also reviewed his understanding of
information theory and he again gets poor marks. It seems he is a jack
of all trades (well just a few actually) but an expert in none.

As far as I have experience with, the only people who believe they have
cornered the market on 'Trvth(tm)' are religious literalists. Scientists
are just looking to improve their understanding of what they don't know,
and confidence level in what they hope they do know.



--
Gary Bohn

NOW COMPLETELY SIG FREE!

.

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