Re: Article: Group selection, a theory whose time has come...again

Nic <harrisondalen@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 4 Dec, 13:27, chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Dec 3, 12:17 pm, John Harshman <jharshman.diespam...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

chris thompson wrote:

[snip]



Is it unreasonable to think that if a given situation somehow favors
group selection, the most profitable group would be one composed of
relatives? You would seem to get the best of both worlds in that
case. Most groups I can think of in natural populations seem to
consist of kin, unless there are compelling reasons to make it
otherwise- for instance, groups that come together for the sole
purpose of reproduction, like herds of deer. And, actually, even they
have some degree of relatedness if I recall my Big Game Management
course correctly.

Sure. In that case we call it kin selection. You may say that kin
selection is a form of group selection, and it is possible to think of
it that way, yet the best understanding is in terms of individual fitness.

Has anyone done any modeling (this is surely a silly question) on the
difficulty of evolving an altruistic non-kin group when a kin-group is
available?

Chris

Good question - I too now see John Harshman's point. If group
members are regularly swapped over, a group selection regime is going
to behave differently. The idea is not to select for altruism - or
that is exactly what you'll get. The idea is to select for successful
groups, and if altruism of members is a good thing, then that is what
will come out.

I have a nasty feeling that the weedy groups will be dominated by
defectors, and this might cancel out the effect of the regime.

If so, what is wrong with just saying there is just kin selection? It
explains why the cells in my body cooperate.

That's basically my view, too. The best accoutns of group selection are
kin selection, for values of "kin" that is determined by the
competitors.


--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Philosophy
University of Queensland - Blog: scienceblogs.com/evolvingthoughts
"He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor,
bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious."

.

Relevant Pages

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