Re: Kenneth Miller's Interview with NOVA

On Nov 30, 1:30 pm, Seanpit <seanpitnos...@naturalselection.
0catch.com> wrote:
On Nov 30, 10:10 am, snex <s...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



[snip]

The same thing is true of
the bacterial flagellum since the stated mechanism of random mutation
and function-based selection can't come remotely close this side of
trillions upon trillions of years of time - on average.



SeanPitmanwww.DetectingDesign.com

where is your math proving this "trillions and trillions of years"
again?

Listed many times in this forum and on my website in my essay on the
flagellum.

I have *repeatedly* asked you for your math. I have *looked* at your
website. The relevant math simply is not there. Instead you keep
presenting your bullshit total sequence size as if that were an
answer. When even you know and admit it isn't the right or relevant
number. The number you need is the gap size. The number of mutations
between the last functional structure that lacks the modified or 'new'
function you identify and the sequence that has that modified or 'new'
function is what you need. You continually assert that you can
calculate that number as a fraction of the total sequence size, but I
have not seen this analysis anywhere in your website.

this is the key point at which your argument fails flat on its
head. all working biologists are saying the exact opposite, and
providing evidence for it, while all you, a non-expert who does
absolutely no experiments of his own, do is assert that they are wrong.

Please do present just one reference to back up this bald assertion.
As far as I've been able to find there are no published calculations
detailing the time needed to evolve anything at the level of
complexity of a flagellar motility system based on the mechanism
alone.

The only *mechanism* you hint at, although you deny it, is one where
you start with a maximally distant (not even average distant) random
sequence of the final size and move in a completely functionless
pathway by random changes until you hit upon some sequence with the
desired function. IOW, the mathematical equivalent of the old 747 in
a tornado strawman. Its boring to have to keep reminding you that
this "model" has no relationship to what evolution proposes.

The assumption of the time involved is based entirely on the
assumed age of the geologic column and fossil record - - NOT on any
understanding of the actual mechanism involved, mutation rates, and
distances that must be crossed to get from one proposed intermediate
steppingstone function to the next. These calculations and time
estimates are not discussed in literature.

You certainly have not discussed it. Except for your implication of
the 747 in a tornado strawman argument.

Sean Pitmanwww.DetectingDesign.com

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Lennys Counter Argument
    ... trillions upon trillions of years are not required when ID is in ... To build, for example, a 999-unit sequence from a mixture of 333-unit ... "Sean Pitman: ... bullshit for, and evades the ones he has to go off-script for. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: The ID ONLY Hypothesis
    ... distant site in total sequence space, ... I've *never* said that tens of thousands of fairly specified base pairs ... random walk from the maximally distant sequence. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: countability of real numbers? What am I missing?
    ... fraction sequence. ... Forget the above: you wrote: "I assert it lists all ... and a countable sequence is a countable sequence, ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: Of Mice and Straw Men
    ... > interpretation of your assertion as just stated concerning the random walk? ... For example, the mutated sequence could evolve to read, ... on a little island here with the use of single character changes. ... time of less than trillions of years. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Lenny comes up with a real argument - - finally
    ... The goal is to hit a specific 999aa sequence. ... Whether any given 333 fsaar or 999 fsaar is beneficial is determined ... Atrazine degradation is 3 proteins representing a single 1200 aa ... trillions of years'. ...
    (talk.origins)