Re: FYI on Dave the new guy
- From: Kermit <unrestrained_hand@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:50:19 -0800 (PST)
On Nov 25, 3:15 pm, IbeDavid <norman...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Nov 25, 1:03 pm, TomS <TomS_mem...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 09:48:48 -0800 (PST), in article
<571a6d1d-4f63-4922-bff6-5624f548f...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, IbeDavid
stated..."
On Nov 24, 7:11 pm, ken <flakey...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
DaveinLakeEvil, Ibedavid, Ibenorm, norman706, and whatever other names
he's concocted to avoid your killfiles are all the same 1/2 wit
And he's here ONLY to trap
REPLY: Thank you Net-Nanny for introducing me ; Im not here 'to
trap' anyone ... only to engage in civil dialogue as i once was a
fellow-atheist who had to quit playing the Pretend Game at any cost so
i could live as i like. Like now former-atheist Prof. Anthony Flew ,
I had to release atheism due to Modern Science proving atheism totally
untenable , absurd, and requiring FAR more faith than what a Theist
requires. www.impactapologetics.comfor the featured book :" I Dont
Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist' by Dr. Norman Geisler .
As faith is a gift of God, that means that the faith to be an atheist
must be a gift of God.
Anyway, atheism is off-topic for talk.origins.
I'm interested in what your non-evolutionary account is for
various highly complex and specified patterns in the world of
life. Such as the complex structure of the "tree of life". Or how
the existence of God determines the values of the "fine-tuning"
of constants of physics.
It would be interesting to hear what the reason is for Homo sapiens
being just another mammal. Or how we can establish the value of
the speed of light, not by experiment, but by deductions from the
nature of God.
--
---Tom S.
"As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand."
attributed to Josh Billings- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
REPLY: Tom, 1. Faith for the Believer is from God
Or bad chemistry in the brain, or really, really, wanting to feel warm
and fuzzy. Are you going to talk about science, or just yammer on
about your own inability to know the difference between science and
atheism?
and as the Bible
says and EVERYONE believes and knows intrinsically that God the
Creator
You sound like a man trying to convince himself. I was raised on
Hellfire and brimstone, sonny, and I gave it up when I realized
1. There was no reason to believe, and
2. all the adults around me were insane and dishonest.
What does any of this have to do with science?
exists (Romans 1:18-22) so that man is without excuse for
trying to deny God.
I don't "try to deny God" anymore than I try to deny Santa or the
literal existence of Zeus. I just don't have any persuasive reason to
believe that *any of these entities are other than imaginary.
Have any?
God gives additional faith to those who go seeking
after him and are genuine in wanting to learn more about him.
And yet when I "Went looking for him" I found silence. Lots of people
yammering, but... you're not any god, even a small one.
Now,
'Atheists' believe in an Intelligent Being for this universe
Ummm, no. That's why we're atheists. We have no belief in gods. Are
you going to discuss evolutionary science? We have several scientists
who are theist; perhaps one of them will answer your questions.
Oh, wait; you're not asking questions. Guess you don't want to learn,
*and you're infallible.
but they
choose to suppress that knowledge for whatever personal ulterior
motives they have
Yup, I viciously and selfishly failed to find any reason to think that
gods exist outside of human skulls.
... usually to choose a lifestyle that would not sit
well with God .
Well, I raised a kid and am growing a garden and read books... oh! I
sleep in on Sunday. Of course, that's not the Sabbath. You *do go to
church on the Sabbath and not Sunday, don't you?
No one is that absurd to think the Universe just
popped into existence from nothing by nothing
Can you corroborate that this is the only model cosmologists assert?
There are branes, cycling universes, eternal universes, looping
universes, and other alternatives.
Please demonstrate that a creator god is more likely; show the math.
complete with over 133
razor edge Constant parameters of our Universe all in tact and working
in unison with one another so we could live on earth.
Right. If some of them were different we'd be living on Mars,
listening to this drivel.
If there are an infinite number of universes, what are the odds that a
highly unlikely sequence of events would occur?
The bottom line
is, 'atheists' dont want to surrender their autonomy to God nor follow
his ways ; they think its more fun to call their own shots.
Whose shots? I have seen religious loons frothing at the mouth; I have
been threatened, I have heard rants. I have seen neither hide nor hair
of any god.
I know
cause i used to give myself the label of 'atheist' many years back.
Don't confuse drunken weekends during young adulthood with thoughtful
secular philosophy.
The technical term for the younger you is "backsliding Christian",
unless you're making this up entirely, which I suspect.
2. The Creators plan was to provide a very suitable place for his most
prized possession to live and this is why he carefully crafted our
universe with so many Design parameters incorporating
physics ,mathematics, and chemistry --the Universe as has been
discovered is a very rational place ;
And yet almost all of it is inhospitable to human life. And most of it
was invisible to us until very recently.
God made the universe ,
Got any evidence?
for
example , to be within 1/1,000,000 th for the universes expansion
rate. You talk about precision !
Ummm... what?
This however pales in comparison to
the Gravitational Force which is required so Earth doesnt fly off
into space -- this particular factor is so precise that it truly
boggles the mind .
Please explain what would happen if the gravitational constant were,
say, 10% less. Show the math. What would break, and why do you think
that?
A full list of these 133 required Constants can be
studied atwww.reasons.orgunder Design Evidences.
No, they are all silly assertions, poorly cited, and dishonest on the
part of whoever set them up. Why don't you pick just one and we'll
clarify what's wrong with it for you?
It shows the
enormous care, planning, execution, and sustanence that God endures
for our wellbeing so we could have a real personal relationship with
him.
Argumentum ad ignoratium is not evidence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
If you don't know how the universe came about, or how likely a
constant is, then the answer is "I don't know", not Goddidit.
For, that is the ultimate reason for him providing all he has in
the shaping of this Universe we live in. It is a very prideful and
rebellious person who willfully refuses to have anything to do with
The Creator of the Universe. Dave.
What Creator? And how dare you tell him that he must have done it your
way? The evidence says that the universe is ancient, and we are
cousins to apes and hammerhead sharks. If you deny it, then you call
your god a liar, for the evidence indicates you are wrong.
If you want to salvage your insecure faith, why not show us actual,
you know... *data that you are right? And bring your humility; if you
are wrong, you will need it to correct any errors in your beliefs.
Kermit
.
- References:
- FYI on Dave the new guy
- From: ken
- Re: FYI on Dave the new guy
- From: IbeDavid
- Re: FYI on Dave the new guy
- From: TomS
- Re: FYI on Dave the new guy
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