Re: Origins and Mental Activity

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 22:05:42 +0000, Ernest Major
<{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In message <l2t9i3h26sov3o7r1on2s63i92nb6pfmlr@xxxxxxx>, Zoe
<muze10@xxxxxxx> writes

thank you for the pre-history, Mujin, but I really want to start at the
point where the elements have come into existence. What laws of
chemistry and physcis are there that state that certain elements must
always combine with certain other elements?

You give the impression that you have a bad miscomprehension of
chemistry. There are *no* laws of chemistry and physics that state the
certain elements *must always combine* with certain other elements.

my thought exactly. I just wanted to be clear that there is no
natural law that states that sugars and phosphates, for instance, must
line up in repeated links that form a regular and consistent chain
That is not how luck and chance works.


Chemistry is not random. However that does not mean that the same
reactions occur regardless of the composition, pressure and temperature.
What compounds are formed depends on what elements are present, in what
ratios, and on the temperature and pressure of the ensemble.

For example, at lower temperatures an appropriate mixture of copper,
sulphur, oxygen and hydrogen forms the blue Cupric Sulphate Pentahydrate
CuS04.5H20. At higher temperatures it changes into a mixture of
anhydrous Cupric Sulphate and free water. (There is also a Trihydrate
and a Monohydrate.) I'd guess that at still higher temperatures it
breaks down further to form Cupric Oxide and Sulphur Trioxide.

For example, depending on the relative concentrations of carbon and
oxygen, the predominant result of the reaction between those elements
may be carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide.

All the above refers to reactions under equilibrium conditions. But
systems need not be at chemical equilibrium. If you react chemicals at
high temperatures and cool the products rapidly what you obtain may be
far from equilibrium at the new temperature, but the approach to
equilibrium may be so slow (as in the transformation of diamond to
graphite at room temperature and pressure) that it can be ignored. So
the set of chemicals you have depends not only on the elemental
composition, temperature and pressure, but also on their history.

Another departure from equilibrium occurs when you continuously remove
one product (or two or more products). This is what happens with the
electrolysis of water to produce hydrogen and oxygen.

Now to consider how chemical reactions work. In simplified terms what
you have is a mixture of molecules and atoms whizzing around and
colliding with each other. Sometimes when they collide they will "stick"
together; at other times a collision will break up an existing molecule,
or exchange moeities between molecules. The collisions occur randomly,
but clearly the probability of each type of collision depends on
relative concentrations of the classes of participants. What happens
when a collision occurs depends on the chemical properties of the
participants, which in turn is related to the available energy states of
the electrons in both isolated atoms and in molecules, and on the energy
of the collisions, which is related to the temperature.

okay, so at this point in the early universe, your position is that it
is acceptable to conclude that the formation of compounds are erratic
and varied, depending on circumstances. And this conclusion is a
reasonable one based on what you have observed about the behavior of
chemistry and physics in our world today.

On the other hand, my position is that it is equally acceptable, so
far, to conclude that the formation of compounds can occur through the
application of mental activity, based on what scientists have been
observed to do in the building and splitting of compounds in our world
today.

Neither position has the edge at the moment.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: (off topic) Krugman: A Cant-Do Government
    ... You asked me for a specific temperature ... >> on that graph and that wasn't possible. ... > Not a one of which shows a value of equilibrium point over extended time, ... Except that they don't--or are you blind to the CO2 and O2 values of earth ...
    (soc.culture.thai)
  • Re: Origins and Mental Activity
    ... reactions occur regardless of the composition, pressure and temperature. ... All the above refers to reactions under equilibrium conditions. ... the set of chemicals you have depends not only on the elemental ... at other times a collision will break up an existing molecule, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Origins and Mental Activity
    ... You give the impression that you have a bad miscomprehension of chemistry. ... What compounds are formed depends on what elements are present, in what ratios, and on the temperature and pressure of the ensemble. ... If you react chemicals at high temperatures and cool the products rapidly what you obtain may be far from equilibrium at the new temperature, but the approach to equilibrium may be so slow that it can be ignored. ... Sometimes when they collide they will "stick" together; at other times a collision will break up an existing molecule, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Global Warming at Odds With Science
    ... is warming, then the temperature of the globe, aka "global ... equilibrium, then there is no temperature for the system. ... where in the system I make the measurement. ... that's because no single measurement would be of use in such a system ...
    (uk.politics.misc)
  • Re: (off topic) Krugman: A Cant-Do Government
    ... You asked me for a specific temperature ... >> on that graph and that wasn't possible. ... > Not a one of which shows a value of equilibrium point over extended time, ... entire history of the earth then that demonstrates equilibrium. ...
    (soc.culture.thai)
Loading