Re: very important for your life...

On Oct 15, 3:20 pm, "newlife...@xxxxxxxxx" <newlife...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

WHAT IS ISLAM?

A primitive superstition arising from the Arabian Penninsula, sold to
the gullible by a sly and devious child-molester who had been
hobnobbing with jews and christians in his travels as a camel-driver.
Large parts of the Quran are lifted (inaccurate) from both jewish and
christian scriptures.

Can we find an explanation of the great universe?

Why does the universe need and explanation? Maybe it just *is*.

Is there any
convincing interpretation of the secret of existence?

Please clarify what you mean by "the secret of existence." As far as
I know, it's not a secret. Life exists. We're hot on the heels of a
scientific explanation as to how it came about. When we find it - and
we will - I very much doubt that it will be kept secret.

We realize that
no family can function properly without a responsible head,

No, *you* have been brainwashed to think that families must have
"heads." I was brought in in an egalitarian family where my mother
and father worked collaboratively to bring us up. Neither ruled the
other. They arrived at decisions using logic and compromise.
Sometimes Mom compromised. Sometimes Dad did.

What's more, as far as I can tell, the marriages of my grandparents on
both sides were similar, so my parents' marriage is unlikely to be an
aberration.

that no
city can prosperously exist without sound administration, and that no
state can survive without a leader of some kind. We also realize that
nothing comes into being on its own.

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE. You go from talking of the known - that
governments of various sizes exist and serve useful purposes - to the
mere assertion, that nothing comes into being of its own. From what
current data seems to indicate, it's entirely possible that the
universe has *always* existed in some form, and needs no cause.

Moreover, we observe that the
universe exists and functions in the most orderly manner,

Well, except for the really chaotic parts of it....

and that it
has survived for hundreds of thousand of years.

"Hundreds of thousands of years"???? The universe, last I looked, was
known to be between 13-15 billion years old. Go back to school, your
education is *sorely* lacking.

Can we then say that all this is accidental and haphazard?

We can say that it's all the result of natural processes. What we
*cannot* say is that there is any supernatural being, existing
independently of space-time, that was needed to create the universe.
And the reason we can't say that is because ther IS NO EVIDENCE THAT
ANY GOD EXISTS.

Can we attribute the existence
of man and the whole world to mere chance.

Uh, man doesn't exist by mere chance. Man exists because he evolved,
and evolution does not operate by random chance. Likewise, the world
(by which I presume you mean the planet Earth) did not come into
existence "by chance," but as a result of perfectly natural processes.

Man represents only a very small portion of the great universe.

Yes. The vast majority of the universe, along with most of Planet
Earth, are inhospitable to earth-life, of which "Man" is a subset.
That inclines me to think that it was *not* created, nor was man
created to inhabit it, since we can't.

The notion that the entire universe was created merely as a stage for
mankind to play out some kind of a cosmic drama with a supernatural
being is one I find to be disturbing and immoral on its face. It
devalues the universe, and reduces it and all the other life forms to
nothing more than stage dressing. That's despicable, in my view.

And if
he can make plans and appreciate the merits of planning, then his own
existence and the survival of the universe must also be a planned
policy.

No, that does not follow. <WHACK> Back to logic class for you.

This means that there is an extraordinary power to bring
things into being and keep them moving in order.

You have not demonstrated that, and now you are assuming your
conclusion, which is a logical fallacy.

There is no reason to think that things "came into being" (a mildly
pejorative phrase in itself) through any supernatural agency, and
evidence (data) suggests that things move along quite nicely due
entirely to natural processes.

In the world then must be a great force in action to keep everything
in order.

That is merely an unsupported assertion on your part. Please
demonstrate the existence of this "great force," and why and how it's
keeping everying "in action."

In the beautiful nature there must be a Great creator who
creates the most charming pieces of art produces every thing for a
special purpose in life.

That has not been demonstrated. And for every "beautiful" and
"charming" aspect of existence, I can cite an ugly, dangerous, awful
aspect. So that's a really bad argument, and I would suggest you
refrain from using it.

The deeply enlightened people recognize this creator and call him Allah "God".

Actually, "deeply enlightened" people know that no god - including
your precious allah - can be demonstrated to exist. It's only you
superstitious barbarians who can't think your way out of a paper bag
who need to believe in such a being.

He is not a man because no man can create or make another man.

No, he's not a man, he's a fictional character - a myth.

And by the way, men create men all the time. They also create women.
Men *and* women, together, create people whenever a couple conceives a
child. It's a well-documented, well-studied process that we can
manipulate in the laboratory.

He is not an animal, nor he is a plant.

No, he's not an animal or a plant. He's a fictional character.


He is neither an Idol nor is He a statue of any kind because non of these
things can make itself or create anything else.

No, he's a fictional character. He doesn't actually exist. You have
presented no data to support his existence, no any irrefutable logic.
All you have done is spout canned rhetoric - some very pretty
speechifiying, but nothing resembling a cogent argument.

He is different from all these things because he is the maker and keeper of them all.

Allah is *absolutely* no different from any other god-construct that
humans have thought up over the millennia. He's just another
supernatural boogie-man designed to keep the ignorant savages out of
trouble and make them easy for the authorities to handle.

The maker of anything must be different from and greater than things which
he makes.

But you haven't demonstrated that any god exists, or that it made
anything, and you certainly haven't demonstrated that it made the
universe, Earth, or people.

There are various ways to know God "ALLAH'' and there are many things
to tell about him.

The best thing to tell about him is that he is, like all other gods,
an invention of MEN.

The great wonders and impressive marvels of the world are like open books in which we can read about God.

Actually, they're natural processes and the results of those natural
processes, which makes them rather *more* wonderful than they would be
if than if they had been created.

Besides, God
Himself comes to our aid through the many Messengers and revelations

....most of whom seem to have been epileptics and/or schizophrenics.

He has sent down to man.

Please provide evidence to support that assertion. Put it here:

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These Messengers and revelations tell us everything we need to know about God.

No, it doesn't work like that. Here's how it works:

*First* you (the positive claimant) provide hard, scientific data that
such a creature as a "god" exists.

Secondly, you provide hard, scientific data that this "god" wants to
interact with us.

Third, you provide hard, scientific data that it sent any
"messengers," and the the "revelations" those "messengers" deliver do,
in fact, come from this "god."

The complete acceptance of the teachings and guidance of God 'Allah'
as revealed to His Messengers Muhammad is the religion of Islam. Islam
enjoins faith in the oneness and sovereignty of Allah, which makes man
aware of meaningfulness of the Universe and of his place in it. This
belief frees him from all fears and superstitions

*All* religions, including islam, *are* superstitions. They are an
attempt to mollify or placate unproven supernatural forces to alter
the fabric of time and space in order to give the believer (the one
who's practicing the superstition) what s/he wants. It is nothing but
the practice of magic.

And don't you *even* talk to me about religion and fear. Religion -
especially islam and christianity - are *all* *about* engendering and
maintaining fear in their believers. It's how the priestly caste
manipulate the sheeple.

If you want to see people who are *really* free from fear and
superstition - interview an atheist. We don't practice superstion or
magic, and we have no fear of supernatural beings or some horrible
afterlife.

by making him
conscious of the presence of the Almighty Allah and of man's
obligations towards Him.

....which is exactly calculated to engender, well, fear.

This faith must be expressed and tested in actions, faith alone is not enough.

Faith is *NOT* a virtue. Faith is a character flaw. You should be
ashamed of yourself for promoting it.

Rationality is a virtue. Critical thinking builds good character.
Those are the things that makes a human being truly human.

Belief in one God

Belief in one god is on its face illogical. If such creatures as
"gods" were possible, it's highly unlikely there would only be one of
them, as life forms are not known to exist in singularity.

And if a god does exist, and there's only one, it's quite probably
insane.

What was your god doing before it got the idea of creating the
universe? Who did it play with, before it created man? Why did it
need to create man? Why, for that matter, did it need to create a
universe at all?

requires that we
look upon all humanity as one family under the universal Omnipotence
of God the Creator and Nourisher of all.

Okay. So the Sunni-on-Shia violence in Iraq, and the Shia-on-Shia
violence in Iraq, and the muslim-on-muslim violence in Darfur, and the
machinations of the taliban in afghanistan, and the obscenity that is
Al Qaeda, and the way that Indonesian muslims persecute christians in
indonesia... [further listing of examples cut short for bandwidth's
sake]...

....all these are evidence that muslims practice this "universal
family" concept???

What crap.

Islam rejects the idea of chosen people,

Well! Finally, a concept that I can agree with. Of *course* there
are no "chosen people," because it cannot be demonstrated that there
is any god out there to "chose" one people over another.

making belief in God and good actions the only way to
heaven.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, Sparky, but the concept of
"heaven" is nothing but a theological conceit. So is the "soul."
There isn't one speck of data to support either thing. There isn't
one speck of evidence to suggest that *any* *part* of human
consciousness survives the death of the brain. When you die, you're
dead. You cease to exist. There is no evidence indicating an
afterlife of any kind.

Thus, a direct relationship in established with God, without
any intercessor.

But you haven't yet provided any evidence that a god exists. Please
do that, or shut the hell up.

Islam is not a new religion. It is, in essence, the same message and
guidance which Allah revealed to all Prophets. Adam, Noah, Abraham,
Ismael, David, Moses and Jesus (PBUT). But the message which was
revealed to Prophet Mohammed (PBUT) is Islam in its comprehensive,
complete and final form.

*All* of the Abrahamic religions are nothing but base superstition,
without the slightest evidence to support them. That puts islam in
the same category.

All "religions" are nothing but superstition. Islam, christianity,
judaism, hinduism, the lot.

I exempt buddhism because, in its original form, it is an atheistic
life-way and not a religion. Too bad the unwashed masses added in all
the supernatural bits.

The Quran is the last revealed word of Allah

The Quran is a badly-written mish-mash of judaism, christianity, and
paganism. I've got a copy. I find it mostly dull, but with some
really horrifying parts, and some really self-serving parts - like
claiming that god made women inferior to men. (How transparent is
*that*?) In short, I see nothing divine about it.

And you have yet to provide hard evidence of the existence of any god.

and the basic source of
Islamic teachings and laws. The Quran deals with the basis of creeds,
morality, history of humanity, worship, knowledge, wisdom, God-man
relationship, and human relationship in all aspects. Comprehensive
teaching on which, can be built sound systems of social justice,
economics, politics, legislation, jurisprudence, law and international
relations, are important contents of the Quran. Hadith, the teachings,
sayings and actions of Prophet Mohammed (PBUT), meticulously reported
and collected by his devoted companions. Explained and elaborated the
Quranic verses.

Oh, please. The western world is *quite* well aware of what a horrid
system of laws most islamic countries have. Democracy, with all its
flaws, is a far superior system of government to legalistic religious
rule meted out by the priestly class. Islamic countries tend to be
absolute shitholes, especially if you're a woman.

Oh, and by the way, how do you square "social justice" with the idea
of making non-muslims into second-class citizens through increased
taxation and limitation of privileges? Kinda goes against the whole
concept, don't you think?

THE FUNDAMENTAL ARTICLES OF FAITH IN ISLAM

<Islamic propaganda snipped>

You first need to prove that any god exists, Sparky. Come back when
you can do that.

And try actually *thinking* for yourself, instead of spouting these
canned "arguments," okay?

Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes at dakotacom dot net

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