Re: Science, God, and Free Will

On Oct 9, 4:43 pm, Ernest Major <{$t...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In message <1191960416.114721.255...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
part...@xxxxxxxxx writes



On Oct 8, 4:16 pm, Garamond Lethe <cartographi...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 04:19:22 -0700, partso2 wrote:
The usual argument for Dualism states that Materialism can't explain
things like self-awareness or volition. Protons and electrons don'r
seem to have them, and there's no reason to think that a big number of
them will. It's totally unexplained, materialistically.

Fallacy of composition. No individual transistor can perform floating
point arithmetic, so why should you think "a big number" of them can?

Come on. Transistor can process information (what cannot?). FPA is
just a bunch of information processing, so it makes sense to assume
that a lot of transistors will be able to do the job. However, a blue
page doesn't show ANY ability to reflect red light, so there's no
reason to assume that 10^18 of them will. Electrons don't have a 'small
mind' which can be additive - they seem to be completely undefined in
mental terms. I hope you don't think that the fallacy of composition
means that 0+0+0+0+....+0=0 is wrong.

I hadn't realised that you were seriously proposing the "usual argument
for Dualism" above - instead I thought that you were parodying a Dualist
argument.

It *is* a fallacy to argue that a system cannot have a property that
it's components don't have. Atoms have properties that protons and
electrons don't have. Molecules have properties that atoms don't have.
And so on up to brains. Or hurricanes. Or stars.

(The fallacy of composition is the claim that components necessarily
display the same properties as the systems that the compose.)

There *are* reasons to think that a suitably arranged collection of
protons and electrons are capable of displaying self-awareness and
volition. Apart from Occam's Razor - why introduce an additional entity
before a need for it has been demonstrated - there is evidence that the
qualities are material, such as the effects of drugs, blows to the head,
neurological damage, etc. I find it a reasonable working hypothesis that
consciousness is an emergent property of the brain.
--
alias Ernest Major

Ernest, I want to make clear that I view the mind as an emergent
property of the brain as well. I also believe in dualism, because I
think the mind that emerges has free will, etc.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: A Theory of Everything that explains Gravity, Magnetisim, Electrostatic force
    ... > protons and electrons and forms a crystal structure like salt. ... > imply with the simple cubic structure of the neutrino sea, ... The lattice unit in NaCl has a measurable dipole moment. ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: The simplest of physics!
    ... is mainly made of protons and electrons. ... The at theory says that all free electrons repel ... at least within fixed areas around the nucleus. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: The simplest of physics!
    ... experiments on neutrons. ... composites of protons and electrons. ... least within fixed areas around the nucleus. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: The simplest of physics!
    ... experiments on neutrons. ... protons do? ... What we say they do (electrons and protons), ... least within fixed areas around the nucleus. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: One of the biggest mistakes
    ... My claim was this: two protons ... It is easy to disprove a law. ... electrons being 'associated with' the nucleus, ... protons having positive charges and repelling other like charged bodies. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)