Re: Evolution increases the computational ability of organisms.

r norman wrote:

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:13:27 -0600, dkomo <dkomo871@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


*Hemidactylus* wrote:


On Sep 17, 8:18 pm, Friar Broccoli <Elia...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


On Sep 17, 1:15 pm, dkomo <dkomo...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


<snip>

--p. 137 & 138

Here's an example of information processing inside E. coli:

"But how can an individual bacterium, locked into the genome it has
inherited, cope with environmental fluctuation?"

"Think, for instance, of an E. coli living in the erratic environment of
a human colon, dependent for its nutrients on the whimsical eating
habits of its host. If the bacterium is deprived of the amino acid
tryptophan, which it needs to survey, it responds by activating a
metabolic pathway to make its own tryptophan from another compound.
Later, if the human eats a tryptophan-rich meal, the bacterial cell
stops producing tryptophan for itself, thus saving the cell from
squandering it resources to produce a substance that is available from
the surrounding solution in prefabricated form. This is just one
example of how bacteria tune their metabolism to changing environments."

I find this argument very compelling.


You are easily compelled by nonsense.


Evolution will lead to
more complex information processing because organisms that can
respond more appropriately, in a wide variety of ways are more
likely to have a competitive advantage.


Lame globalized generalization. In a cave, fish eyes may degenerate
due to efficiency or cumulative errors.

Parasitic species (ie- tapeworms) may invest less in their own
digestive systems, simplificaton is a better strategy than
complexification. K.I.S.S.


The fish and the parasites have maximized the information stored in their genomes. They are as complex as they can be for the environments they are in. In order to explain this, I need to make another post introducing a new complexity/information measure. That's forthcoming.


Thanks for bringing this idea to my attention.
This gives substance to the intuitive (and observed)
notion that evolution has a general direction.


See Gould's modal bacter. Nuff said.


Again, the bacteria have maximized the amount of information stored in their genomes vis-a-vis the environment. This is what natural selection always accomplishes, in the long run. Nuff said (for now).


This presumes an awful lot. For example, you need a measure of
complexity and you have to prove that there is a maximum and you have
to prove that the organisms are at the maximum.


The paper I intend to provide a reference to has the mathematical derivations, based on information theory, to answer these questions. You'll thoroughly enjoy it, and then slap your head, exclaiming "Why didn't I think of that?"

You are just equating "complexity" with "fitness" and saying that
natural selection tends to increase fitness. However there is no
reason to believe that fitness ever achieves a maximum.

Yes, but there's a maximum of information that can be contained in a genome given the size of the genome. This measure will tell you how much is actually there relative to that maximum.

Also, this measures the information in an *ensemble* of individual genomes, i.e. a population of organisms. The information in a single genome is statistically meaningless. Now, how is the *fitness* of entire populations defined or measured? My understanding is that this is undefined in population biology. So this measure of complexity is not the same thing as fitness.

The
hill-climbing metaphors for evolution only say that natural selection
moves higher up the hill. How do you ever know when you have reached
the top?


See above.


--dkomo@xxxxxxxx


.

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  • Re: Evolution increases the computational ability of organisms.
    ... a human colon, dependent for its nutrients on the whimsical eating ... metabolic pathway to make its own tryptophan from another compound. ... example of how bacteria tune their metabolism to changing environments." ... They are as complex as they can be for the environments ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Evolution increases the computational ability of organisms.
    ... a human colon, dependent for its nutrients on the whimsical eating ... metabolic pathway to make its own tryptophan from another compound. ... example of how bacteria tune their metabolism to changing environments." ... They are as complex as they can be for the environments ...
    (talk.origins)