Re: Dark matter

Paul J Gans wrote:
TomS <TomS_member@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:00:22 +0000 (UTC), in article
<fcjnf5$16c$3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Paul J Gans stated..."

Perplexed in Peoria <jimmenegay@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[...snip...]

Ok, so you are saying that the evidence for the existence of dark matter
comes from general relativity and cosmology. It is a flatness of the
universe thing. But it seems I have read that there is a local problem
as well as a global problem. We need more massive stuff than we can
see just to hold galaxies together. And maybe we need even more massive
stuff we can't see to hold the universe together.

You are saying the same thing that josephus said. The basic
idea is that there is not enough ordinary matter in a typical
galaxy to give the observed movement patterns in them.

Since we do not seem to have any problem within the solar
system, it is postulated that this *may* be a long range
effect of some sort.

This is precisely the way science operates. Observations are
made that cannot now be explained by existing theory. The
result is threefold: the observations are refined (and have
been in this case), existing theories are re-examined to see
if they can be extended to cover the new data (and they don't
seem to be able to), and last new theories are developed. That's
ongoing.


Many of the sciences have major outstanding problems -
famous outstanding problems such as the relativity/quantum
relationship. But I'm mildly curious, because I can't think of
any such big problem in chemistry. Is there one?


Hmm. Not basic problems as far as I am aware.

Chemistry, in my personal opinion, is a done deal. It is not
that chemistry is dead, far from it, but it flourishes these
days in the realm of complex systems.

When it comes to basics, that's pretty much all done. Chemistry
seems to be a mesolevel science, neither as basic as physics
nor as complex as biology -- though chemists work in both
areas.


We could, of course, simply say "God did it" and not bother
looking at it any more. If we did that all the time, we'd
still be living in caves and thanking God for the gift of
caves.



But, as far as I can tell, there never was an era (before the
present) in which people were satisfied with "God did it",
and not bothering to go beyond that. People did try to
find out ways to get favorable outcomes from the gods.


Yes, and folks who figured out that, for example, stones
roll downhill had a big advantage over folks who hadn't.


An obvious way was to try to bribe them or flatter them or to play one god off against the other.


Oh yes.


And sometimes there was a feeling that there was something
that even the gods were subject to - fate, perhaps, or magic.


There's a lot of current fantasy fiction that uses that notion.
So it isn't dead at all.


And there was also the business of trying to find out what
the gods were up to. Or what the gods wanted us to do.


Yup. God wanted me to go to war, so I went to war. Don't
blame me if it turned out badly.

That's a neat ploy. And the guy who says it might even be
sincere, which is even more scary.


There has been for centuries the idea of OCCULT KNOWLEGE and SECRETES OF THE UNIVERSE. I suspect this isdea was involved with the creation of scinece. even if it was secretive. (and yes I know about ALCHEMY and its secrets)

josephus

--
I go sailing in the Summer and
look at STARS in the Winter.
"Everybody is igernant, jist on differt subjects"
Will Rogers Jr.
"it aint what you know that gets you in trouble
it is what you know that aint so"
Josh Billings.

.

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