Re: Chez Watt: asynchronous deglaciations => asynchronous sea level rises


On 3-Sep-2007, "J.LyonLayden" <JosephLayden@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 3, 11:35 am, Skitter_the_...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

And as for your claim that moving the coasts hundreds of miles inland
would not destroy coastal civilizations, I don't even need to honor it
with a retort. We're excavating artifacts from caves underwater right
now. Plus there's Dwaraka, and even the hard-core skeptics admit that
the formations off the coasts of Okinawa were at least minimally
altered by human hand. And guess what? They haven't been above water
since 10,600 ybp. Now, bucko, THAT was a culture. Specifically the
pre-
jomon culture. Interesting that the cultivation of rice has now been
pushed back to 18,000 ybp in that area, isn't it?

Could you please provide a cite for the above information?

http://www.amazon.com/Eden-East-Drowned-Continent-Southeast/dp/0753806797/ref=sr_1_5/104-0546119-9499934?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188837755&sr=8-5

http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/vedic-civilzation.html





10,600 years ago, all the coastlands flooded massively. To most
coastal cultures, THE WHOLE WORLD flooded because the "world" is
necessarilly all that you as a culture know of it. Before that time,
there were giants in the Earth, who could pick up an NLF linebacker
from today and absolutely throw him through the goalposts from the 10
yard line.

I thought about requesting a cite for this, but...well, if you provide
one
then I will reverse my judgement that your assertion is just a flight of
fantasy.

Here's the quote for neanderthals and goalposts and memebers of the
NFL:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1511/is_n9_v16/ai_17199047/pg_2

heres another strength estimate:

http://130.94.161.3/KortExplores/articles/files/brute1.php

I'm not sure what I wrote that gave the impression that I was disputing the
strength of a Neanderthal compared to a modern human. I'm wasn't. It was
the "giants in the Earth..." Most of the sources I am looking at place the
average height of a Neanderthal at about 5.5 ft. for a male. I'll can check
to see what sort of strength estimates there might be, but I won't contest
that a Neanderthal was stronger than the average modern human.

But 5.5 ft is not exactly the height I would define as "giant" compared to
modern humans. What criteria are you using to define "giant"?


I'm sure your not asking me to quote a reference that says that a
person's definition of the word "world" is mandated by how much of the
world he KNOWS about are you?

No, I'm not. See above for my disagreement.


I mean...surely you don't think common Europeans in the first century
AD took America into consideration when talking about "the world" as a
whole?

Agreed. The educated might take into considered undiscovered lands, as some
others might. I am sure there are exceptions, but I won't quibble about
your point.



Some of these "giants" got people to worship them, as
documented in ancient texts. But some people were smart enough not to
to buy that crap, and sought the enlightenment that is available to us
all but which many, like you, make a life's work of ignoring.

What are you talking about?! What enlightenment are you referring to?

That there is one God and an afterlife. it doesn't take the Bible to
come to that conclusion, or even interaction with other humans for
that matter.

You realize that many would disagree with you that a belief in monotheism is
any sort of enlightenment, don't you? The same holds true for belief in an
"afterlife".

Such beliefs predate the existence of the Bible.

Frankly, I know of no way to test your contention that such opinions would
develop outside of interacting with other people. I'm not sure that any
complex ideas would form, given the social and cultural context that beliefs
and ideas exist in.

Again, what "giants" got people to worship them? What non-mythological
sources for this do you have?



Remember, some populations of cro-magnon averaged 7 feet tall, and the
majority of beginning civilization people stood around 5'6 and were
much less robust.

WTF are you talking about? What human population has ever averaged 7
ft.
tall? Was that a typo on your part?

Nope. The "watusi" average close to 7 feet tall right now, and cro-
magnon as a species averaged one inch taller than us.
Paleolithic man averaged 6'1 as a WHOLE, with individual populations
ranging much higher than that.
INDEED, it really looks as if the only reason cro-magnon averages so
low (6'1) is because of the fact that pocket populations of
controversial "hybrids," as short as neanderthals themselves bring the
average down.

Uh, you do realize that Cro-Magnon R Us, don't you.

I would like a cite for the average height of paleolithic populations.
You're numbers are simply far off base from anything I have ever seen.

You are wrong about the "Watusi" Their supposed 7 ft. height is a
Hollywood-helped myth. The correct average height is about 5' 6-7".

Currently, the Dutch are the tallest people in the world. The average
height for a Dutchman is almost 6' 1". Can you see how far off your numbers
for Paleolithic peoples probably are?

The existence of interbreeding between modern sapiens populations and
Neanderthals is not yet well established to my knowledge. It seems
reasonable to me, but not well documented to have occured except at couple
of sites. What additonal information do you have regarding this? Your
height calculations are just wrong though. Bad data.


Meganthropus robustus was estimated at "2/3 the size of
giganthropithecus" which would be 8 feet. Modern anthropologists skirt
around giving a size for it by saying "well within the range of homo
erectus."

Cite please?

The reason that modern anthropologists give it's height range as "well
within the range of homo erectus" is probably because the extant remains and
data support a height well within the range of Homo Erectus.

Or do you mean Bigfoot?



Wel,, 8 feet is "well within the range of homo erectus" just as it is
for Hss; we have had 8 foot tall humans living even in recent times.
In fact, we've had plenty over 7 feet who have nothing wrong with
their pituitary glands.

And cro-magnon was more robust than us.

Again, Cro-Magnon R Us.

I think you are using, and thinking along the same lines, the terms "range
of variation" and "population average" interchangeable.


Idaltu and heidelberg were even larger than cro-magnon, and it isn't
impossible that isolated populations of archaic homo sapien survived
until the end of the last ice age.

Not impossible. No evidence I know of to support such a proposition though.
Do you?

Thanks for the reply.

Skitter the Cat

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Chez Watt: asynchronous deglaciations => asynchronous sea level rises
    ... that a Neanderthal was stronger than the average modern human. ... anthropologists shirk away from saying just HOW tall, for some reason. ... Paleolithic man averaged 6'1 as a WHOLE, with individual populations ... Neanderthals is not yet well established to my knowledge. ...
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