Re: Serotonin vs Dopamine


Vend wrote:
On 25 Ago, 23:14, VoiceOfReason <papa_...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Vend wrote:
On 25 Ago, 16:45, nmp <addr...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Vend wrote:
On 25 Ago, 02:11, VoiceOfReason <papa_...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[..]

I was on another SSRI (Effexor) for several years, and stopped about 6
months ago. I plan to go back on it, even with the laundry list of
side effects. The symptoms of clinical depression are a bitch, even
when you know how to recognize them.

I presume that becoming a drug addict will not solve the problem.

That is really an ignorant (and mean) thing to say.

In cases of clinical depression, "the problem" can hardly ever be solved
*at all*. Sometimes, in some people, antidepressant drugs can help
mitigate the symptoms of the depression, be the "lesser of evils". But
they only work in some individuals, and not in others and so far noone
has any method to predict how any patient will respond to the treatment
prior to trying it for at least two months.

For some people, like perhaps VoR above, some of these drugs work well.
They are "lucky" to find the drug that works for them, often after years
of experimentation with all sorts of chemical treatment.

I was not totally serious, but in fact, a lifetime therapy with an
antidepressant is effectively an addiction to a drug.

It's not an addiction, and I wouldn't even cal it a dependency. It's
a choice of treatment.

Maybe you are right that for some people there is no alternative and
the side effects are less severe than the symptoms.

But I have the suspect that at least some (perhaps most) cases of
incurable depression may start as depression caused by some negative
experience, then the patient starts taking antidepressants which alter
his or her brain chemistry and make him or her addicted, possibly for
life.

If you can support your suspicion with evidence, I'm all ears.
Antidepressants alter brain chemistry, but the effect is temporary.

I have no specific evidence, only the notion that drugs that cause a
pleasurable sensation usually can cause addiction.

That's misconception number one. Anti-depressants do not cause a
pleasurable sensation. They remove painful sensations. One of the
common symptoms of dysthymia is a constant "down" feeling, sort of
like a feeling of impending doom that's with you 24x7. The drugs
remove that sensation.

In short, anti-depressants don't make you feel good... they make you
feel AVERAGE. For someone who has suffered with this disease for
years, that's a *major* improvement.

Another common symptom is the inability to interpret pleasant
experiences in a positive way. It's hard to describe, but I'll give
an example... Some weeks after I started treatment, I drove past a
field of flowers with my car windows wide open. When the smell hit
me, I was shocked that they smelled absolutely great! I had smelled
flowers a million times before, and the physical sensation was
identical. But this was the first time (since as long as I could
remember) that I was able to *interpret* it as a pleasant experience.

It happens with tobacco, alcohol and cocaine (a dopamine reuptake
inhibitor) for instance.
I think it is reasonable to hypothesize that it can happen with
serotonin reuptake inhibitors too.

Reasonable, but incorrect in this case.

You said that after stopping to take the antidepressants you assumed
for years, you got the symptoms again. I guess that, unless you have
some objective external reason to be depressed or you have some
disease of the brain or some other organ,

Clinical depression IS a disease of the brain (or chronic condition,
if you prefer). It has a physiological basis, just as diabetes has.

it's quite possible that
your symptoms may be due to the lack of the antidepressants your brain
has become dependent to.

The symptoms existed prior to the use of anti-depressants.

You have some basic misconceptions on the topic. Try reading some
material on the 'net about it. The National Institute of Mental
Health is a good start:http://www.nimh.nih.gov/healthinformation/depressionmenu.cfm

Maybe. I will look at it.

The NIMH site is a little cryptic, come to think of it. Wikipedia is
another fair source of info, and there are numerous other sites that
go into more/better detail.

This is one of those areas in modern medicine where quite a bit of voodoo
is still practiced. Because there really are no alternatives.

Or because the a good many of psychiatrists are incompetent, or
dishonest.
After all, if they make you addicted to their drugs they will get
financial benefits.
(now I'm starting to sound like a scientologist :D )

You sound more like a conspiracy theorist. My doctor gets no
financial benefit from drugs that I take. I buy them from the drug
store, not the doctor.

But
1) you have to go to the doctor reguarly for monitoring and adjusting
the therapy.

As do patients with diabetes, cancer, psoriasis, etc.

2) pharma company can't legaly pay the doctors to prescribe their
drugs, but they have found ways to give them benefits in exchange of
prescriptions (like luxury holidays disguised as courses and
conferences). At least it happens in my country, Italy, that is
generally quite corrupt, but I presume that at some level it happens
worldwide.

The same could be true of any medical treatment. Would you suggest
that diabetes or cancer patients NOT go to the doctor?

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Serotonin vs Dopamine
    ... pleasurable sensation usually can cause addiction. ... like a feeling of impending doom that's with you 24x7. ... All they would get is the side effects of the drugs. ... Clinical depression IS a disease of the brain (or chronic condition, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Serotonin vs Dopamine
    ... Sometimes, in some people, antidepressant drugs can help ... mitigate the symptoms of the depression, ... Antidepressants alter brain chemistry, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Serotonin vs Dopamine
    ... In cases of clinical depression, "the problem" can hardly ever be solved ... mitigate the symptoms of the depression, ... For some people, like perhaps VoR above, some of these drugs work well. ... It's not an addiction, and I wouldn't even cal it a dependency. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Serotonin vs Dopamine
    ... Sometimes, in some people, antidepressant drugs can help ... mitigate the symptoms of the depression, ... It's caused by an imbalance of neurotransmitters. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Serotonin vs Dopamine
    ... Sometimes, in some people, antidepressant drugs can help ... mitigate the symptoms of the depression, ... Actually the true causes of clinical depression are complex and not ...
    (talk.origins)