Re: Is the human mind/brain special wrt animal minds/brains?

On Aug 24, 10:47 am, Bryan Heit <bryans.spam.t...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Aug 23, 12:53 pm, John Harshman <jharshman.diespam...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Could someone with access to PNAS explain what these structures, etc.
are? Presumably they don't include the hippopotamus minor. (Speaking of
language, I find the author's dichotomy between humans and animals to be
archaic and odd.)

The main differences listed are:

1) Neutrons in the human visual cortex are arrayed in a mesh, whereas
other primates are arrayed vertically

Neutrons? Clearly a typo. At least you didn't say anything about a
hungry hungry hippo(potamus). Does the general location of the visual
cortex differ between humans and other primates? And don't we share a
more primitive visual processing system in the optic tectum (superior
colliculus?) thingy with other verts that IIRC Ramachandran discussed
wrt "blindsight"? We also share eyes and chiasma etc with other verts
I'd think. The deep archetypal connections to other vertebrates are
overwhelming.

2) Humans have more, and larger VEN's - unusually shaped, tapered
neurons

Difference in degree not kind?

3) Human minicolumns (used for parallel processing) are wider and
contain more synapses

Difference in degree not kind?

4) Human brains make a lot more thrombospondin, which apparently has
something to do with driving synapse formation

Difference in degree not kind?

The final paragraph of their intro is interesting:

"Virtually all the newly discovered human singularities are located in
areas associated with either complex social cognition [theory of mind
(TOM)] or language. But the reorganization of the human brain has not
been without cost. In addition to advancing language and TOM, it
brought about neurodegenerative disease: schizophrenia, autism,
Alzheimer's, etc..."

Isn;t autism something akin to losing "theory of mind"?

The body of the article then compares a bunch of behaviors shared by
humans and other animals (language, deception, planning, etc), and
basically points out the diffrerences in the way we do it, vs the way
animals do it.

I am not a neurobiologist - but with that caveat in mind I would say I
did not find their arguments particularity compelling. In short form,
the argument appears to be simply that human behavior is more complex
then animal behavior. This increased complexity appears to arise in
specific regions of the brain, some of which are organized differently
then that in animals. Therefore our brains are significantly
different, and it isn't the size that matters but rather the
organization.

They also make a lot of claims that appear to have no factual basis -
i.e. that human learning did not arise as a result of food seeking,
but rather from a "far broader context arguably involving
TOM, language, and aesthetics." Unreferenced, of course. This
statement makes even less pence when taking what we know about evol
and common ancestors into account - maybe today all of those other
things are part of learning, but the most likely diverged from the
food seeking behavior of our earlier ancestors.

In my mind it seems like a lot of assumptions based on very limited
evidence. It also seems to ignore a lot of what we know about human
evolution to reach its conclusions - i.e. throughout they seem to
assume that things like learning, thinking, and language arose de novo
in humans, rather then being traits which diverged from earlier
ancestral traits.

No sure how well the arguments made in the published article will be
supported. Maybe they make a good case for significant differences in
humans that reflects major reorganization and tweaking of structures
and systems inherited from common ancestor.

I have wondered though how detailed the evolution and systematics
background is of your average neuroscientist or psychology researcher.
I've heard, in my distant educational past, professors say stuff in
passing dring a lecture that made me wonder how in tune they were
with evolutionary biology.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: early language
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    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: "Its uncertain whether intelligence has any long term
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    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: early language
    ... or are they asking about language in general? ... those of other animals and correlated with certain lifestyles. ... cannot breathe whenever they want to, but they breathe deeper & faster when ... completely & close their mouth in order not to let water in. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Is the human mind/brain special wrt animal minds/brains?
    ... language, I find the author's dichotomy between humans and animals to be ... But the reorganization of the human brain has not ... quantity has a quality all its own, but that's not what he was claiming. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Is the human mind/brain special wrt animal minds/brains?
    ... language, I find the author's dichotomy between humans and animals to be ... But the reorganization of the human brain has not ... quantity has a quality all its own, but that's not what he was claiming. ...
    (talk.origins)
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