Re: 2nd law of thermodynamics


"spintronic" <spintronic@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1184502117.168636.22810@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Jul 15, 12:55 pm, Klaus Hellnick <kShePllnAi...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

<snip>

Why are you conflating the movement of energy with the ordering of
matter?
Klaus- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

For the same reason entropy conflate's the movement of energy with the
"disorder" of matter.

"Disorder" is not a scientifically defined term, at least not in
thermodynamics.

Take your most basic system of entropy.

2 atoms. (a & b)


Atom (a) is in energy level 1, and Atom (b) is in energy level 2.

Atom (a) in more highly ordered. (smaller volume)

Again, you are using an undefined, and therefore meaningless, term.

Atom (b) now transferres a photon to Atom (a).

According to thermodynamics, because of the transfer of thermal
energy, the entropy of this system *MUST* increase. But it CANT!

Classical thermodynamics deals with the transfer of heat in macroscopic
systems, not microscopic systems consisting of one or a few atoms. For your
system, you need to use statistical thermodynamics.

I assume you mean that the transfer of a photon from atom (b) to atom (a)
results in a change in the energy levels of the electrons in the atoms,
rather than the energy levels of the atoms. Assuming both atoms are of the
same element, according to statistical thermodynamics, the entropy remains
the same.

Atom (a) receives the photon from (b). (Transfer of thermal energy
therefore increased entropy), but at the COST of rearranged
organisation between the two atoms.

Again, "organisation" is not a scientifically defined term. According to
statistical thermodynamics, there is no change in entropy.

Atom (a) is now in energy level 2, and is thus more *DISORGANISED* as
you would expect!

Again, "disorganised" is not a scientifically defined term. What equation
are you using to calculate "disorganisation"?

HOWEVER & MORE IMPORTANTLY!!!!!

Atom (b) is now in energy level 1, and has become more organised. Due
to its (NOW) smaller volume.

Volume is only relevant to the macroscopic, classical thermodynamics.

On a whole. Entropy, like energy, momentum, mass is conserved! :)
Enjoy!

No, entropy is not conserved. Entropy, like temperature, is not a thing
that can be moved from place to place. If I want to increase the
temperature of a room by two degrees, I can't just go outside and grab two
degrees and bring them inside. Instead, I have to add sufficient energy to
the room to raise the temperature by two degrees. The change in temperature
is the result of the movement of energy.

Likewise, if I want to decrease the entropy of a system by two joules per
degree Kelvin, I can't steal two joules per degree Kelvin from another
system and add them to the first. Entropy is a state function. Whatever
state a system may be in, it has a particular entropy. If I want to change
the entropy of the system, I must change the state of the system by
rearranging the energy of the system. As with temperature, the change in
entropy is the result of the rearrangement of energy in the system.


.

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