Re: The triumph of intelligent Design: Front loading!

On Jul 8, 3:27 am, "Rolf" <r...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
At Pandas Thumb, Glen Davidson wrote:

"Behe's great mutator either mimics other mutating agents and thus differs
not at all from known regularites and/or chance, or it makes designed
changes which happen to fit in with the regularities of evolution and thus
cannot be the set complement of chance and regularity. That is to say, if it
really does anything, then it can't be ID, and if it doesn't do anything, it
can't be ID. So we'll have to conclude that Behe's Great Mutator is an
unknown cause producing unknown effects, for the regularities of evolution
are accountable (according to ID dicta) by "natural science", hence
evolutionary theory."

That seems reasonable, but ID is front-loaded with a built-in resistance
against arguments.

Given what you say below, unless I am missing something, you are using
"front loading" in 2 senses - (1) that the ID argument "front-loads" a
loophole (which also makes it unfalsifiable, but that's no problem for
ID's target audience) and (2) that "front-loading" of "information" in
cells is how the design is actuated. Correct?


The question "What is ID" is easily answered, "it is Intelligent Design."
And that's it. The observed vacuity of ID may be one of its strongest
points - it can be anything you like as long as it rejects evolutionary
theory.

I strongly suspect that most IDers know that it does *not* reject
"evolutionary theory," because they are almost always careful to use
the word "Darwinism" to denote what ID rejects.

I believe mutations are a thorn in the eye for most ID'ers, and now
they have got a new ploy-toy: front loading. From a comment to an article on
UD:

"I got the impression that Behe is willing to grant even less to the powers
of RM+NS this time around. He presents a radically ID front-loading case for
almost everything biological, much like Lee Spetner's NREH."

Now this front-loading thing is nothing new; it must be at least ten years
now since I first read the pseudonym Mike Gene writing about front-loading
on the ARN ID-forum.

Actually, in "Darwin's Black Box" (1996) Behe proposes *only* a front-
loading scenario. AIUI, it remains the *only* route of design
actuation ever proposed by a major IDer. While most ID argumentation
is geared to promote unreasonable doubt of common descent, there has
never been a direct challenge of it (as classic creationists do) let
alone a proposed testable alternative, whereby species or other
undefined "kinds" originated independently.

BTW, I'm probably not the only one who wondered if Mike GeNe might be
Mike BeHe.


If the ID-scientists (tongue-in-cheek) haven't been working their asses of
before, I believe they have to get them cranked up now, if they expect to
convince anyone outside their captive crowd that front-loading is anything
else than just another useless tool in their (junk)box of useless tools.

Outside of a few token papers that serve only to provide more
misleading incredulity arguments (e.g. Behe & Snoke) I doubt that
IDers will ever do much lab work to attempt to support their
arguments. ID, as a rhetorical strategy, is working very well. It
sells to a wider audience than YEC or OEC does.

Case in point, when "Meyer's Hopeless Monster" was proudly proclaimed
as the 1st serious peer-reviewed ID paper (never mind that it was only
a review of past work, didn't support ID *or* propose what happened
instead of the Cambrian evolution that it doubted, and may not have
been properly peer-reviered) critics said that if that is true, it
should be the *beginning* of fruitful research, not some "final word."
3+ years later, the only follow-up has been steady whining about the
"persecution" of Sternberg.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: The triumph of intelligent Design: Front loading!
    ... changes which happen to fit in with the regularities of evolution and thus ... it remains the *only* route of design ... Mike BeHe. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: The triumph of intelligent Design: Front loading!
    ... "Behe's great mutator either mimics other mutating agents and thus differs ... changes which happen to fit in with the regularities of evolution and thus ... Now this front-loading thing is nothing new; it must be at least ten years ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: The triumph of intelligent Design: Front loading!
    ... changes which happen to fit in with the regularities of evolution and thus ... it remains the *only* route of design ... I'm probably not the only one who wondered if Mike GeNe might be ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: The triumph of intelligent Design: Front loading!
    ... changes which happen to fit in with the regularities of evolution and thus ... cannot be the set complement of chance and regularity. ... Now this front-loading thing is nothing new; it must be at least ten years ...
    (talk.origins)
  • The triumph of intelligent Design: Front loading!
    ... changes which happen to fit in with the regularities of evolution and thus ... cannot be the set complement of chance and regularity. ... Now this front-loading thing is nothing new; it must be at least ten years ...
    (talk.origins)