Re: Chez Watt Re: Common ancestor between man and ape

On Jun 25, 8:52 am, UC <uraniumcommit...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 24, 4:54 am, richardalanforr...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:





On 23 Jun, 17:57, UC <uraniumcommit...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 23, 12:48 pm, Ye Old One <use...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 09:11:02 -0700, UC <uraniumcommit...@xxxxxxxxx>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:

On Jun 22, 6:39 pm, Cory Albrecht <coryalbre...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
UC wrote, On 2007/06/22 16:15:

On Jun 22, 3:38 pm, Mark Isaak <eci...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
And that still leaves "fish" and "insect" and "cell", all of whose
meanings have changed as a result of advancement in scientific
understanding.
I need more information about whales being called 'fish', but even
that would not be a change in meaning of 'fish' but a change in its
application to a narrower group of animals.
'Cell' is a word with a broad range of applications, which it has had
for many centuries. It was merely applied to a new context. The basic
meaning of 'cell' was not changed during this application, as a 'cell'
was and remains any small enclosed thing, the cells of a bee hive,
for instance. Think of the 'cells' in plastic packaging, for instance.
All of these are 'cells'.

So here you are, supporting this new use of the word "cell" by
scientists in their own scientific context and different from that of
the vernacular context of the time. However, you disallow the new use of
the word "ape" by scientists in their own scientific context.

Correct, because 'ape' SPECIFICALLY MEANS NON-HUMAN.

No it does not. It may have done many years ago, it may still do to a
poorly educated plonker like you, but it has not done so for long
enough now that you are looking very foolish to keep on about it.

there is nothing
about 'cell' that inhibits its extension, but 'ape' is different.

No, it is just a word, a collection of letters which happen to mean
something to either the person reading or writing them. And, like all
words, its meaning can (has) change with time.

Your lack of support for the second is based on the claim that the use
of vernacular words by scientists with altered meanings in new contexts
causes confusion hen there is no context. Yet here now you support
_exactly_ that type of context-based redefinition for usage of the word
"cell" - "[i]t was merely applied to a new context" - your words
exactly. If you are going to complain about confusion with respect to
"ape" when context is lacking and thus forbid it, you must surely also
complain about the confusion about "cell" when context is lacking due to
the fact that "cell" has so many more meanings than "ape" and thus the
confusion is bound to be greater. Consistency would demand that you are
even more opposed to a new addition to the meanings of "cell".

Nope.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
cell1 /s?l/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sel]
Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
-noun
1. a small room, as in a convent or prison.
2. any of various small compartments or bounded areas forming part of a
whole.
3. a small group acting as a unit within a larger organization: a local
cell of the Communist party.
4. Biology. a usually microscopic structure containing nuclear and
cytoplasmic material enclosed by a semipermeable membrane and, in
plants, a cell wall; the basic structural unit of all organisms.
5. Entomology. one of the areas into which the wing of an insect is
divided by the veins.
6. Botany. locule.
7. Electricity.
a. Also called battery, electric cell, electrochemical cell, galvanic
cell, voltaic cell. a device that generates electrical energy from
chemical energy, usually consisting of two different conducting
substances placed in an electrolyte. Compare dry cell.
b. solar cell.
8. Also called electrolytic cell. Physical Chemistry. a device for
producing electrolysis, consisting essentially of the electrolyte, its
container, and the electrodes.
9. Aeronautics. the gas container of a balloon.
10. Ecclesiastical. a monastery or nunnery, usually small, dependent on
a larger religious house.
11. Telecommunications. See under cellular phone.

<http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cell>

Look at that - _11_ different meanings!

Correct. 'ape' is different.

Yes, it is different, it has one less letter than cell.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
cell (s?l) Pronunciation Key
n.
1. A narrow confining room, as in a prison or convent.
2. A small enclosed cavity or space, such as a compartment in a
honeycomb or within a plant ovary or an area bordered by veins in an
insect's wing.
3. Biology The smallest structural unit of an organism that is
capable of independent functioning, consisting of one or more nuclei,
cytoplasm, and various organelles, all surrounded by a semipermeable
cell membrane.
4. Architecture See web.
5. The smallest organizational unit of a centralized group or
movement, especially of a political party of Leninist structure.
6. Electricity
1. A single unit for electrolysis or conversion of chemical
into electric energy, usually consisting of a container with electrodes
and an electrolyte; a battery. Also called electrochemical cell.
2. A single unit that converts radiant energy into electric
energy: a solar cell.
7. A fuel cell.
8. Computer Science A basic unit of storage in a computer memory
that can hold one unit of information, such as a character or word.
9. A geographic area or zone surrounding a transmitter in a cellular
telephone system.
10. A storm cell.
11. A small humble abode, such as a hermit's cave or hut.
12. A small religious house dependent on a larger one, such as a
priory within an abbey.
13. A box or other unit on a spread*** or similar array at the
intersection of a column and a row.

Oh my gosh! _13_ different meanings! How ever do we tell the difference
between them without context? I'm so confused! You _should_ have told
scientists that you wont allow them to use "cell" as the name for the
building blocks of multi-blockular life!

It seems to me that you are trying to have you cake and eat it, too.
Context-based definition changes cannot be OK for one word and then not
OK for the next, but this is merely typical of your normal level
inconsistency.

Sure it can. It depends on the lexical field of the word.

Any word can change. There is no rule to say it can't. In fact, if you
invent a rule you can bet someone will break it before the ink is dry.

--
Bob.

You have to take into consideration the word's hostory. It has NEVER
been considered possible to refer to humans as 'apes' except as
metaphorical or derogatorily, and thus never biologically. You cannot
overturn that under any circumstances.

So when Desmond Morris entitled a book "The Naked Ape", did he mean it
metaphorically or derogatorily?

Or did mean it taxonomically?

As it is perfectly clear that he *did* mean it taxonomically, and that
such usage is widespread, it is also perfectly clear that you are
flatly, blatantly, obviously, flagrantly, transparently, manifestly,
patently and brazenly wrong.

If you admit that, you will not appear to be quite such a prick.

RF

RF

The word means 'non-human' (among other things. It CANNOT be applied
to human beings.

This seems to be a simple assertion, backed up by previous simple
assertions, all made by you.

The word means a group of medium-large to large primates with some
shared characteristics and some large differences. One species in the
group is homo sapiens.

You don't have to like it.

Will in New Haven

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