Re: Genome

On Jun 17, 9:22 pm, Stephen Trapani <fahgetabou...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Denis Loubet wrote:
"Stephen Trapani" <fahgetabou...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:sQedi.8$5Z.0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Ken Shackleton wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:23 am, Stephen Trapani <fahgetabou...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Suzana wrote:
On Jun 17, 12:20 pm, Stephen Trapani <fahgetabou...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Suzana wrote:
Man with all his noble qualities still bears in his bodily frame the
indelible stamp of his lowly origine.
Charles Darwin
'Consider this; We are, to a 98% approximation, chimpanzees, and they
are, with 98 % confidence human beings. If that doesn't dent your
self
esteem consider that chimpanzees are only 97% gorillas, and humans
are
also 97% per cent gorillas. In other words we are more chimpanzee
like
then gorillas are.
There is no bone in chimpanzee body we do not share. There is no
known
chemical in chimpanzee brain that can not be found in human brain.
There is no known immune system, digestive system, the vascular
system, the lymph system or the nervous system that we have and
chimpanzee don't or vice versa. There is not even a brain lobe in
chimpanzee brain that we do not share.'
All this is possible because we share the same building block of life
(as any organic form on this planet) called genes. If I were to read
to you human genome one word per second for eight hours per day it
would have taken me a century. That is how incredibly large and
complex it is. And yet we share 98 per cent of it with chimpanzees.
Now genes are not only the recipe for our physical appearance they
also influence our behaviour.
Let me remind you we have 2 per cent difference in genome between us
and chimpanzee. This is significant similarity. Significant enough
to
rid us of our vanity when comparing our selves to animal kingdom.
The percent difference responsible for the difference in mental
ability
of humans and apes is not really as significant as the outcome. In
other
words, there is a vast difference between humans and all other
animals.
This difference is humans' ability to reason. Humans have it, no other
creatures we know of do.
It is interesting how small of a genetic difference causes the huge
difference in mental ability, but that's all it is, interesting.
Stephen-
I'll probably regret this, but I do not believe that we have enough
data to be sure what capacity of reasoning all animals have. There are
instances where some species have shown quite a remarkable capacity.
First things come in mind is parrot that learned over 100 words and is
able to use them accurately, I think there was also a monkey (don't
remeber what kind exactly) that learned sign language... or that
amazing story about a dog (was aired on CNN last year) who ended up
at ER because he had broken leg. They kept chasing him out of waiting
room but he kept coming back until medical staff realised he had
fractured leg....I am sure there are many more examples....
No, only humans have ever shown the ability to create ideas (eg,
reason). The examples you give are nothing more than sophisticated
programming running.

How about the macaque that got the idea of throwing sand and wheat in
the water [to separate it] instead of simply picking wheat from the
sand? This intelligent and reasoning primate then taught this trick to
the rest of the troop.
Again, all the "ideas" lower animals have had can be explained entirely by
a running program.

So can we. Ours is just more complex.

In apes the programming is very complex, but you can see the same sorts of
"ideas" in computer programs, like the ones that fly airplanes.

Yeah, lots of computer programs have pet kittens, like Koko.
http://www.koko.org/world/koko_friends.html

In other words, if an ape can build itself a bed,
you can find bed building instructions in it's genes (or we will find
it, once gene science becomes that sophisticated). But you will never
find bridge building genes anywhere, or car driving genes, or poker
playing genes, or newsgroup post writing genes, etc, etc. In other
words, everything that makes us human can be described as the creation
of ideas and this is entirely absent in every other animal.

You are wrong....I gave you an example, I am sure there are more.
There are no examples of an animal doing what you and I are doing right
now. Zero.

Except for animals like Koko that also carry on conversations with humans.
http://www.koko.org/world/signlanguage.html

At best, a few animals *possibly* show the rudimentary beginnings of
this ability, but the difference is *vast.* You can find evidence for
this by comparing the tangible creations of humans compared to all
others. The only tangible creation of any other animal is the
*genetically programmed* reproductions of themselves and a few crude
holes, nests and so forth. Compare this to the millions and millions of
books, songs, variety of buildings, vehicles, etc on and on. You could
spend days just summarizing all the human creations. You would be hard
pressed to come up with even one creation of a non-human that can not be
explained by a running program.

There is a good reason we consider ourselves superior. There is a good
reason it's okay for you to wear animal skins on your feet right now,
but not humans skins. Each one of us is vastly more valuable than any
animal because of the ideas we can create.

We do have a superior ability to construct things....no question about
that. This is made possible by our intellect, combined with our
ability to manipulate [with our hands] the things arounds us. This
make us more powerful, but I do not think that it makes us "superior"
in the context that you seem to imply.
It goes way beyond just constructing things. For example, no animal has
ever argued about an idea like you and I are doing.

Tell that to Koko. "Jealousy" sure sounds like something my computer
experiences, uh huh.

No animal has ever even though about an idea.

Koko says you're full of rotton stink.

Nothing you provided shows Koko doing anything remotely like arguing our
humanity. Koko says thing like "Give me food."

Stephen

No, they go farther than that. One of the gorillas (I think it was
Koko) asked the keeper for an apple. The keeper gave her one, but she
said that's not what she wanted. This went back & forth a few times
in mutual confusion, until she finally said she wanted an "orange
apple." She didn't know the correct name for the fruit, so she just
described it in more detail. She had to think about how to fully
describe the object she wanted.

Human-style communication skills do not always accurately reflect an
animal's level of intelligence. To say other animals can't think just
because they don't communicate in a way we understand is a huge
assumption. For all we know, whales may be reciting poetry to each
other, or discussing whale politics.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Genome
    ... There is no bone in chimpanzee body we do not share. ... Now genes are not only the recipe for our physical appearance they ... of humans and apes is not really as significant as the outcome. ... there is a vast difference between humans and all other animals. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Genome
    ... There is no bone in chimpanzee body we do not share. ... Now genes are not only the recipe for our physical appearance they ... of humans and apes is not really as significant as the outcome. ... there is a vast difference between humans and all other animals. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Genome
    ... There is no bone in chimpanzee body we do not share. ... Now genes are not only the recipe for our physical appearance they ... of humans and apes is not really as significant as the outcome. ... there is a vast difference between humans and all other animals. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Genome
    ... There is no bone in chimpanzee body we do not share. ... Now genes are not only the recipe for our physical appearance they ... of humans and apes is not really as significant as the outcome. ... data to be sure what capacity of reasoning all animals have. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Genome
    ... There is no bone in chimpanzee body we do not share. ... Now genes are not only the recipe for our physical appearance they ... of humans and apes is not really as significant as the outcome. ... This difference is humans' ability to reason. ...
    (talk.origins)