Re: Wedging in creation theory

On 28 Apr, 01:05, "nando_rontel...@xxxxxxxxx"
<nando_rontel...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I don't know what you're talking about with a soul either. I'm just
talking about alternate equations to describe the moon's orbit, and
then you record the actual path chosen.

Same problem as ever - you confuse what we do with what the universe
does. We use equations to try and predict the path of the moon. The
moon it's self does not use equations and does not choose - it just
does and is.


The alternatives need not be
eratic so the moon can fly anywhere. Now we don't compute the orbit of
the moon just from the past, we also include present and future in the
calculation, it is all perfectly sensible mathematically,
observationally and in regards to common sense about freedom.

All this altering of equations has zero effect on the moon. Us
modeling alternatives makes not one jot of difference to the orbit of
the moon. As it stands the moon is predictable as the things we don't
know are so small as to have next to no effect for the next hundred
thousand years or so.

And so you would argue that some things are caused in the universe
because of our inability to define initial variables,

Our knowledge or ignorance makes no difference to the universe. We
only affect things locally. If all humans died out today the moon
would stay in the same orbit and be where it was going to be in
100,000 years time. What makes you think that what we know or don't
know makes a blind bit of difference except on a local level?


while I would
argue that our inability to define initial variables is because they
are decided between.

Which makes no sense. Our inability to define initial variables is
because we are unable to measure those variables. In many cases
measurement alters the variables.

But apparently you prefer to see this as a force
of ignorance in the universe causing things. Ignorance caused the
inability to know both initial variables.

You don't appear to separate what we do from what the universe does.
Just make a scenario where there are no humans in the universe. How
would the universe alter? The answer is very very very very very very
little. What we know or don't know alters how we can predict the
future and influence things local to us. Our actions ripple out but
are mostly limited to affecting things near us, and at most on a
global scale.

For example if you flip a coin the coin will land exactly the same way
if you know all the variables and know it's going to land heads or if
you're completely ignorant and don't know.

This is common sense - why would knowledge without any action alter
anything around us?

Stew Dean






regards,
Mohammad Nur Syamsu


.

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