Re: Electric cars and nuclear power plants

On 26 Mar 2007 13:24:04 -0700, the following appeared in
talk.origins, posted by "rappoccio" <rappoccio@xxxxxxxxx>:

On Mar 25, 10:36 pm, "derdag" <der...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 25, 11:23 pm, Mark VandeWettering <wetter...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



On 2007-03-26, Desertphile <desertph...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:41:48 -0700, dkomo <dkomo...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Klaus wrote:

Denis Loubet wrote:

"dkomo" <dkomo...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OKSdnVBP-eSgJpvbnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Okay, time for my weekend plug for the environment. I rented a DVD
documentary a few days ago called "Who Killed the Electric Car?",
which led me to the links shown below.

As a result I'm feeling a bit more optimistic about the future than I
usually do. I see the highways of the world by 2030 filled with
efficient electric cars charged by an electric grid powered by a
combination of central nuclear power plants and decentralized small
solar or wind power generators. Homes and offices heated by
electricity. Greenhouse gases and other pollution drastically reduced.

One significant problem with this is nuclear power plants build by the
lowest bidder.

Nuclear power would be very practical in the US, and far cheaper, if
people with sense would coordinate it.
For example, plants should be standardized, especially controls. Spent
fuel rods should be recycled. High level "waste" from the recycling
process could be used in a small number of breeder reactors. The spent
fuel from the breeder reactors could then be stored in a underground
facility where the decay heat would be used to produce more electricity
using geothermal energy technology.
Currently, recyling is banned by the U,S. Government. The partially used
fuel is all treated as waste.
Klaus

We should study how the French have implemented nuclear power. It's one
of the few things besides the Tour de France that they have done well.

Why the French like Nuclear Energy

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/reaction/readings/frenc...

"Civaux in southwestern France is a stereotypical rural French village
with a square, a church and a small school. On a typical day, Monsieur
Rambault, the baker, is up before dawn turning out baguettes and
croissants. Shortly after, teacher Rene Barc opens the small school.
There is a blacksmith, a hairdresser, a post office, a general store and
a couple of bars. But overlooking the picturesque hamlet are two giant
cooling towers from a nuclear plant, still under construction, a
half-mile away. When the Civaux nuclear power plant comes on line
sometime in the next 12 months, France will have 56 working nuclear
plants, generating 76% of her electricity."

"In France, unlike in America, nuclear energy is accepted, even popular.
Everybody I spoke to in Civaux loves the fact their region was chosen.
The nuclear plant has brought jobs and prosperity to the area. Nobody I
spoke to, nobody, expressed any fear. From the village school teacher,
Rene Barc, to the patron of the Cafe de Sport bar, Valerie Turbeau, any
traces of doubt they might have had have faded as they have come to know
plant workers, visited the reactor site and thought about the benefits
of being part of France's nuclear energy effort."

"Ironically, the French nuclear program is based on American technology.
After experimenting with their own gas-cooled reactors in the 1960s, the
French gave up and purchased American Pressurized Water Reactors
designed by Westinghouse. Sticking to just one design meant the 56
plants were much cheaper to build than in the US. Moreover, management
of safety issues was much easier: the lessons from any incident at one
plant could be quickly learned by managers of the other 55 plants. The
"return of experience" says Mandil is much greater in a standardized
system than in a free for all, with many different designs managed by
many different utilities as we have in America."

"Things were going very well until the late 80s when another nuclear
issue surfaced that threatened to derail their very successful program:
nuclear waste."

"French technocrats had never thought that the waste issue would be much
of a problem. From the beginning the French had been recycling their
nuclear waste, reclaiming the plutonium and unused uranium and
fabricating new fuel elements. This not only gave energy, it reduced the
volume and longevity of French radioactive waste. The volume of the
ultimate high-level waste was indeed very small: the contribution of a
family of four using electricity for 20 years is a glass cylinder the
size of a cigarette lighter. It was assumed that this high-level waste
would be buried in underground geological storage and in the 80s French
engineers began digging exploratory holes in France's rural regions."

My Scripto lighter's size: 10mm x 22mm x 82mm

Working....

60,876,136 France's human population

60,876,136 / 4 = 15,219,034 cylinders the size of a cigarette
lighter given that one cigarette lighter equals 4 people

15,219,034 * .76 = 11,566,466 applying 76% to reflect the portion
of France's population using nuclear power

11,566,466 * 10 mm = 115,664,660 mm or 115.6647 km
11,566,466 * 22 mm = 254,462,252 mm or 254.4623 km
11,566,466 * 82 mm = 948,450,212 mm or 948.4502 km

Or in other words, France over the next 20 years will produce
enough high-level nuclear waste to build a glass block 71.87 miles
wide by 158.12 miles long by 589.34 miles high.

Uh. Valiant try, but your math is way off. The volume of a single
lighter is 10mmx22mm*82mm. 11,566,466 times that volume is...
208,659,046,640 cubic millimeters, or 208 cubic meters.

Mark- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let's encase it in impregnable layers of metal and fire that stuff
into the sun. Even if the rocket explodes, the payload will be
located for a second attempt. I don't see the danger.

This is cost-prohibitive and dangerous, not to mention pointless since
it can just be buried.

And shortsighted. At one time the "waste" volatiles from
crude oil were burned, since only lamp oil was desired.
--

Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless

.

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  • Re: Electric cars and nuclear power plants
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    (talk.origins)