Re: Predicting the Future and Kolmogorov Complexity (on Symmetry In Nature)

On 26 Mar, 16:41, "Seanpit" <seanpitnos...@naturalselection.
0catch.com> wrote:
On Mar 14, 8:29 pm, "Nic" <harrisonda...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


<snip k>

<snip Shannon Information>


I mean I don't see whether it is an
excess of symmetry or a lack of it that strikes you as particularly
designed about say, a rotating flagellum. Paradoxically, it would be
absence of symmetry that equates to more information, and therfore
more unlikeliness in such a structure.

Again, it depends on the type of information you are looking for.
Symmetry itself is a type of information that has lower algorithmic
complexity. The greater the degree of symmetry of an object or
pattern the lower the algorithmic complexity or randomness.

That seems correct by my albeit informal grasp of the terms.

When you say "Symmetry itself is a type of information", I assume you
mean it is a small amount of Shannon information in place of the
larger amount that would be there in the absence of symmetry.

Non-
directed natural processes can produce a very high degree of certain
types of symmetry in certain types of materials. However, many types
of materials seem immune to symmetrical manipulation by all known non-
deliberate forms of natural forces.

For example, the material of granite does not lend itself to a high
degree of symmetrical manipulation by any known non-deliberate force
of nature when it comes to surface irregularities. For example,
imagine a highly symmetrical polished granite cube measuring 10 meters
on each side. On each face of this cube there are apparently
irregular geometric etchings. What is interesting though is that
opposing faces have the identical etchings.

Such a cube has a very high degree of symmetry with regard to surface
irregularities (corners and etchings). Because the material is known
to be granite, this degree of symmetry in granite, if ever found,
would be a very good clue as to its artifactual nature even if found
on an alien planet before the discovery of the aliens themselves or
any suggestion of how such a cube was actually manufactured. Simply
knowing that its degree of symmetry goes far beyond what any known non-
deliberate process is capable of achieving with granite, combined with
the fact that human-level intelligence is capable of producing such a
phenomenon, is enough to reasonably propose the hypothesis of
deliberate artifact.

As you know, evolution is also candidate for producing such forms.
That is the point your postion requires you to dispute. Most of what
you say above is uncontroversial.

I will say that your argument says nothing about the immediate cause
of your granite cube. It could have been made by the undirected
action of a mechanism that was manufactured. Indeed, the cube's
maker's maker's maker could still itself be just an artifact or an
evolved object, or an artifact *of* an evolved object.



<snip SETI>

<snip Non-beneficial Gap>

Nic

.

Relevant Pages

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