Re: Right on topic

On Mar 26, 12:37 am, "Glenn" <GlennShel...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 25, 7:43 pm, "chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx"

<chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 25, 9:38 pm, "Glenn" <GlennShel...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 25, 5:27 pm, "chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx"<chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 25, 8:10 pm, "Glenn" <GlennShel...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 25, 2:47 pm, "chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx"<chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 25, 4:56 pm, "Glenn" <GlennShel...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 25, 1:40 pm, "chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx"<chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 9:05 pm, "Glenn" <GlennShel...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 24, 5:24 pm, "chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx"

<chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 7:27 pm, "Glenn" <GlennShel...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 24, 3:31 pm, "chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx"

<chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 5:56 pm, "Glenn" <GlennShel...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 24, 1:16 pm, "chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx"

<chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 4:04 pm, "Glenn" <GlennShel...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 24, 11:33 am, "chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx"

<chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 23, 10:33 pm, "Glenn" <GlennShel...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 22, 4:22 pm, "chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx"

<chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 21, 8:53 pm, "Glenn" <GlennShel...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 21, 5:03 pm, "chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx"

<chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 18, 12:32 am, "Glenn" <GlennShel...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

http://www.thecamarilloacorn.com/news/2007/0316/Community/016.html

"Evolution is not a theory- it's a process. Fossil records prove that
evolution is true," said Clint Harper, an agnostic who teaches physics
and astronomy at Moorpark College."

"The college has been hosting a yearlong series of events about
science and religion to spark debate."

"When comparing science to religion, I tell my students: Religion gave
you 9/11, takes your money every Sunday and wastes part of your
weekend . . . science gave you antibiotics, iPods and cellphones. Take
your pick," Harper said."

Religion in physics and astronomy class! Who'd a thunk. Take your pick.

Hey Glenn, where did it say that it was presented in class?

Where do you think he tells *his* students? In "event" class?

In case you didn't read *what you quoted*, it says:

"The college has been hosting a yearlong series of events about
science and religion to spark debate."

It sounds to me like this quote was taken from one of those events,
not the physics or astronomy class.

And what would that matter? He is a teacher, telling his students

You're a laugh a minute, Glenn. Are you telling me that it's the same
thing to tell students his personal views on science and religion
during a school sponsored debate, probably in the student union or a
theater, and telling the same thing during an Astronomy class, when he
should be describing the Main Sequence? If you're saying that, Glenn,
if you're really saying there's no difference between those two
things, then you're acting more mentally defective than usual.

So you think debating is telling personal views. The quote was "I tell
my students", and he is their science teacher, somewhat of an
authority figure. In or out of class, if it is on school time, he's
still a science teacher.

If it's out of class, it isn't on school time, it's on his time.

The event is on school time.

No, Glenn. If he's not in class, it is his own time.

The event, as I showed you, is part of the curriculum. Your blanket

Nonsense. Where is it part of a curriculum?

What part of "seeks to facilitate" or "mission is to provide" do you
not understand? How about the word "integrate", familiar with that?

You don't seem to understand what is meant by a curriculum. A
curriculum is a course of study. It is the body of coursework-
required classes and electives- that make up a student's obligation.
There's nowhere in the description that these yearlong events are part
of any curriculum.

Apparently you don't understand what "part of the curriculum" means.
Something like "part of the course of study" should have hit you. And
I've already provided you with the references. The topic is to be
integrated into the class coursework.

No, I grasp it quite well. It's you who don't get it. The faculty
might be directed to include concepts in their courses. Whoopee. How
they do it- even if they do it- remains to be seen. I personally think
it's a waste of time, and that time in science class is better spent
on science than mumbojumbo.

If the news story is accurate, is is already seen. "I tell my
students" is all you need to know. All the students in the school
aren't his students, and outside of class when he isn't in charge of a
class project he wouldn't be telling his students anything, because
they wouldn't be his students.

You know, I never thought of that. I guess since Elliot Spitzer isn't
sitting in his office, he isn't my governor either. And since you're
home and not in church, you don't have a pastor. If the pastor is home
sipping tea, he doesn't even have a congregation! If GW Bush is in
Crawford, we don't even have a President- oh no, did Cheney take over?

Maybe I never thought of it because it's dumber than a stump.

Not quite as dumb as your claim that teachers aren't teachers when
they are in the hallway.

Concession noted.

statement is just plain foolish and wrong, and you know it. A teacher
can't do anything on school grounds that he could in church (on his
own time), for example.

You're quite mistaken Glenn. When not in class, within the bounds of
propriety, the prof. can do pretty much anything he/she could do
anywhere else. Do you forget that I live that reality every day? I
think I know a little more about this than you do.

If you aren't a complete idiot then, you should know this isn't a
clear cut case of "a teacher can do anything on school grounds that he
can do off campus" crap. You can insert teacher for student there as
well.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-scotus20mar20,1,...

This, of course, is a complete non sequitur. One, it is a high
school, and we (or I, at least) are discussing the college part of
Moorpark.

Forgot your speech about public money?

Don't be an idiot, if you can help it. They are different cases.

You mean like monopoly money versus play money?

Not the money at all. The difference is legal and in the students.
Again, don't be dense.

Don't spout gibberish. The difference is legal, it's called the
constitution. And the one deciding factor that can not be overlooked,
no matter where you find yourself, is whether the government funds or
controls.

Although government funds both public high schools and public
colleges, there are significant differences in the things you can do
in the two different places.

Yeah, you think you can do most anything you can do on campus while
not in the classroom. Like selling your homemade keyrings, picking up
girls, be disrespective, preaching...

Dude, whatever you think you can do or say, no public school can
violate the 1st amendment.

Try this, "authority":

http://www.moorparkcollege.edu/htdocs/fh/section2.html

Dude, did you get the special edition of that document? The one that
had number eight:
"Instructors are never allowed to voice an opinion to students out of
a classroom setting."

No, I have the same one you now have. And that isn't what you have
been saying, either.

Nonsense. It's **exactly** what I have been saying all along. That
astronomy prof voiced his opinion out of the classroom.

Glenn, give it up and go away. Or just go away; this is making you
look very foolish.

If some think I look foolish, so be it. But you haven't convinced me.
You aren't just a private citizen when in the hallway, and you can't
say anything you can say off campus in the hallway, in *any* public
institution, while on the clock. And you are "on the clock" whenever
you are on school grounds during school hours. And schools are for the
benefit of students, not teachers.

I notice you left out the words I always included when I wrote about
that- "within the bounds of propriety". No, you cannot say anything,
but you don't check your First Amendment rights at the door, either.


A teacher telling his students that religion gave us 9/11 is just
plain wrong, unprofessional, and if true, he should be at least
handslapped. You look very foolish to disagree.

As I keep saying, you don't know where or when he said that. There's
even times when that could be appropriate in the classroom- if for
instance he was asked point-blank by a student what his thoughts were
on exactly that topic.

Speaking of blanks, you haven't shot anything else this whole thread.

Chris



http://www.moorparkcollege.edu/htdocs/fh/section4.html

"An Instructor is a citizen, a member of a learned profession, and a
representative of the College. When an Instructor speaks or
writes as a citizen, he or she should be free from College and/
or District censorship or discipline, but this special position in the
community imposes special obligations. As a person of learning
and a representative of the College and the District, the
Instructor should remember that the public may judge the
teaching profession, College, and/or District by his or her
utterances. Hence an Instructor should at all times be accurate,
should exercise appropriate restraint, should respect others'
opinions, and should make every effort to indicate that he or she is
not a College and/or District spokesperson."

"NOTE: The Board approves the preceding statements on academic
freedom as a basic policy expression. However, it wishes to further
emphasize the responsibility of Instructors to present, to the best of
their ability, the pros and cons of such controversial ideas as they
may discuss under this policy, and to use language which is in keeping
with accepted contemporary standards in higher education."

"CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECTS
District Governing Board Policy states that: Citizens in a free
society should be afforded the opportunity to examine varying points
of view regarding the major issues represented to them. In the
discussion of controversial issues the colleges of the District shall
provide suitable learning materials and relevant data in an atmosphere
of objectivity and respect for others which will insure balanced
presentations of these subjects."

snip

So?

Chris


.

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