Re: Creationism, Religion and Denial


<Blazing.Laser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:vd3qu255hsvuh1ou13jhkf6fsh10al5dnj@xxxxxxxxxx
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 00:15:40 GMT, "rmj" <glenna@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Religious people don't deny death.

Some do! I used to know a family that belonged to a charismatic
church. I was invited to go to church with them and on the way their
8-year-old daughter patiently explained to me that we were the first
generation of people who wouldn't have to die because we were going to
bring Jesus back. This particular sect of Christians seemed to
believe that God worked for -them-, rather than vice versa, and if
they prayed sincerely enough for something, God was obligated to
deliver!

I guess I should have written "nearly all religious . . ."

Yes, it's hard to generalize, isn't it?

I don't mean to sound anti-Christian (or anti-religion) here, but in
my observation, evolution denial tends to be a matter of faith rather
than of science or logic or reason.

I agree, but how is evolution denial a natural companion to death denial?

They are both a choice of doctrine above science or even reason.

Now you are generalizing. Some believe in doctrine above reason, others
believe that reason is a Divine gift.

Fundamentalist, evangelical Christianity is all about belief, I mean
you are saved through believing what you are told you must believe.
Some of the things they believe are not very easy to believe, at least
-I- find them hard to believe, so I gather that this is a sort of test
of one's faith. So many times I've asked a Christian to explain some
point to me and he'll say 'Well, it's complicated. I really don't
understand it well enough to explain it to you.' 'But you believe
it?' I ask. 'Oh yes! Completely!' Personally I'd rather have
understanding without belief than belief without understanding. But
different strokes for different folks.

This is somewhat unfair. I believe in general relativity and quantum
mechanics, but I would have a difficult time explaining them, and utterly
fail at justifying them to a doubter. There is faith here.

"Understanding without belief" is good, but what is worse is not
understanding without belief. Beliefs can drive one to false ideas, but the
attempt to grasp the world solely by proofs available to the senses can
limit understanding.


That's true, I think. But having been brought up Jewish I can tell
you there is an element of antisemitism in many Christian
denominations, and holocaust denial is a part of that.

I don't doubt the antisemitism, but do doubt that holocaust denial is
common
in denominations. And there are denominations which are of the belief that
Israel, right or wrong, is to be supported.

Yes, but those people are also antisemetic! (Most) Fundies believe
that the creation of the modern state of Israel is a sign of the last
days, so they will fight for Israel tooth and nail. But they still
think Jews are all going to hell and deservedly so, and they would
rather spend money with a business displaying a fish logo.

Actually, I think, Revelations states that 144,000 Jews will be saved. As to
the Fundies spending money where the fish logo is, this bias is not limited
to them. Do you not think Jews prefer to deal with Jews, Muslims with
Muslims, Koreans with Koreans, Italians with Italians, ad infinitum?


But when I
talk about global climate change with Fundamentalists, they often deny
it outright at first, but with more discussion it comes down to the
idea that God created the earth for us and he wouldn't let it be
destroyed, that he will take care of us until his plan is fulfilled.

That is a common view.

The idea that humans are even able to destroy their environment is
anathema to (some) people who believe that God created the earth as
part of a larger plan, a plan in which the human race is only one
element. Thinking of climate change as a -natural- phenomenon makes
it easier to see it as -part- of God's plan, and therefore nothing for
people of faith to be worried or concerned about.

And some could view it as one more step toward the Apocalypse, an event
not
staged by God, but the outcome of human activities of immediate
gratification rather than the good of all.

Yes, I hadn't thought of it that way but I think you're right.

Many denominations other than Fundamentalists, e.g. Catholics,
Episcopalians, and Lutherans, are concerned with environmental protection.

It is just common sense to be concerned about the environment. I
think fundamentalist Christianity has been corrupted by one particular
political party, and its religious leaders confuse their followers by
conflating Christian and 'conservative' ideas. Jesus was certainly not
a supply-sider. And he didn't believe the rich were heroes. 8^)

Fundamentalism, broadly thought of, existed before the USA.


.

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