Re: Meaning of the Geological Column


"Zoe" <muze10@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:p8ipu2dbus3ml1c1f4f4sobdeucpcm7led@xxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 02:41:31 GMT, "Ross Langerak"
<rlangerak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

snip>

letters N, O, P, and Q, it would be reasonable to conclude that the
files
should be ordered L, M, N, O, P, and Q.

except since you don't know the "alphabet" of the layers. It could
very well be L, M, N, O, P, and R, with erosion having removed Q.

Hey, you're the one who proposed this analogy.

correction. I did not propose this analogy. Carlson did.

Wherever you may have gotten the analogy, you used it in your original post.
That was your choice and no one else's.

Files don't erode, though
they may be removed. In that case, finding a sequence of files ordered
O,
P, Q, R, S would indicate that we needed to insert a Q between P and R,
and
we would be able to add an S to the end as well. Additional findings
might
confirm this sequence.

and, again, you have a prior knowledge of the alphabet; that is why
you recognize that Q goes between P and R. I'm looking for
characteristics that allow you to consistently recognize that Q is Q
in the geological field, regardless of where the layer is found. If
there are no identifying characteristics, then a layer could be Z as
easily as it could be Q.

Presumably, to be analogous with the fossil strata, the files would be found
in stacks around a room. We wouldn't need to know the alphabet beforehand
in order to put the files in order. By simply matching sequences in the
various files, we could determine the correct order.

In the real world, we don't find a single sequence of species everywhere on
the planet. Different locations have different environments and different
flora and fauna. However, there are species that have extensive ranges, and
there are species that overlap. There are birds that migrate from the
northern coast of North America to the southern tip of South America on an
annual basis. Gulls, rats, crows, many fish and insects have wide ranging
habitats.

A fossil sequence found in one location may be nearly identical to a
sequence found at a nearby location. Move a little farther away and we may
begin to find differences in the sequence, while at the same time
maintaining similarities that put those differences into context. By
traveling around the world comparing nearby deposits, we may be able to put
fossil strata in central Africa, east Asia, and North America into the same
context.

Getting back to your alphabet analogy, suppose at one location we find a
sequence (A, B, C, D, E, F). Now, suppose we move to a nearby location and
we find the sequence is now (A, BB, C, D, E, F). We now know that B is
contemporaneous with BB. If we continue to move farther away, we may find
sequences (A, BB, C, DD, EE, F), (AA, BB, CC, DD, EE, F), (AA, BBB, CC, DDD,
EE, FF). Based upon these findings, we can determine that (A, B, C, D, E,
F) is concurrent with (AA, BBB, CC, DDD, EE, FF).

Fossil bearing strata can be ordered in the same way. If strata from
two
locations contain the same sequences of fossil species, it's perfectly
reasonable to conclude that the layers those fossils are found in are
of
the
same age, and use that information to extend our construction of the
geological column.

using "erosion" as a solution for why certain layers are not found in
expected places, erodes your theory, as well. It seems easy to
advocate erosion when expected layers are missing, but it is just as
possible that erosion may have removed layers in what appear to be
original stacks so that what now looks like L-M-N-O-P layers were
originally L-N-O-P-Q layers.

We don't suggest that erosion has occurred because expected layers are
missing; we suggest that erosion has occurred because there is evidence
that
erosion has occurred. Your analogy fails at this point because there is
no
independent way to determine if a letter is missing from a sequence.
Your
confusion here is the result of the inadequacy of your analogy, not the
inadequacy of evolution (or geology).

again, it is not my analogy. It is Carlson's. Take that up with him.

Again, wherever you may have gotten the analogy, you used it in your
original post. That was your choice and no one else's.

However, if erosion has completely occurred, then you have no evidence
that erosion has occurred, other than a prior knowledge of what should
have been there. Is this prior knowledge based on a solid premise or
not?

Scientists are not stupid. Why are creationists always assuming that
scientists are stupid? Erosion and other geological processes produce
inconsistencies between sequences of strata. Strata below a certain level
may be tilted while strata above that level may be horizontal. Strata below
a certain level may be interrupted while strata above that level are
continuous. What happens to the preservation of fossils when strata
deposited in water are interrupted by strata deposited on dry land? And, of
course, we now have isotopic dating methods that allow us to produce
absolute ages for strata that confirm interruptions in deposition.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Meaning of the Geological Column
    ... except since you don't know the "alphabet" of the layers. ... very well be L, M, N, O, P, and R, with erosion having removed Q. ... you're the one who proposed this analogy. ... In that case, finding a sequence of files ordered O, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Angles and Erosion Rates - For John Harshman
    ... If the layers are so folded that some are protected from erosion, ... surface area) and slow down the process of complete erosion breeching ... The overall rate of sediment deposition ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: The Thickness of Richard Forrest
    ... If the layers are so folded that some are protected from erosion, ... surface area) and slow down the process of complete erosion breeching ... The overall rate of sediment deposition ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Angles and Erosion Rates - For John Harshman
    ... from the underlying crystalline base rock. ... If the layers are so folded that some are protected from erosion, ... The overall rate of sediment deposition ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: The Thickness of Richard Forrest
    ... from the underlying crystalline base rock. ... If the layers are so folded that some are protected from erosion, ... The overall rate of sediment deposition ...
    (talk.origins)