Re: Great Pyramid Excursion Debate Cancelled


Ray Martinez wrote:
Stile4aly wrote:
Ray Martinez wrote:
Stile4aly wrote:
Ray Martinez wrote:

We know the GP was exactly 5449 polar diameter inches from the ground
to the original summit platform. "The GP never had a capstone" (Dr.
Scott).

On what basis does he make this claim? Known pyramidions that have
survived were built from obsidian, which would have been a very
valuable find for the grave robbers who plundered the treasures of the
pyramids.


There is one claim and one fact.

The claim is the subject of the post and well evidenced. Facts about
the GP are produced by scholars. There is no capstone on the GP,
therefore, the only other option for you is to provide evidence for
your claim. Since you are a Darwinist who believes the crust of the
Earth intentionally with held the evidence of intermediacy, it is no
surprise that you believe someone stole a 30+ ton object.

Except that we know that other pyramids have had capstones. Some of
these capstones have survived, but very few. And who says the capstone
had to be moved all at once. It could have been broken into pieces and
stolen piece by piece over the centuries.

All you have to do is back up your claim with evidence or a scholar
that shares your view that has no evidence.

Sure.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/excavation/hawass.html
Interview with Dr. Zahi Hawass, Director of the Pyramids

"In excavations at Abusir, I discovered two important scenes in blocks.
One scene shows the king and his workmen dragging a capstone; other
scenes depict people dancing and singing. My interpretation is that
when the king finished building the Pyramid, he had his workmen place a
capstone sheathed in gold on top."



500,000,000 pd inches = the distance between the North and South poles
along the polar axis.

one pd inch = 1/1000th of an inch longer than the British inch, or
1.001064 British inches. 1/1000th of an inch = average thickness of a
human hair.

Sputnik artificial orbiting satellite (1957) measured the polar
diameter of the Earth:

Sputnik couldn't have been placed into orbit without already knowing
the diameter of the earth, Ray.


Unsupported assertion evading the evidence that proved otherwise. Why
would a person do this ?

Inability to refute.

Ray, Eratosthenes was the first to make measurements of the earth, and
even though his calculations had some errors, his estimate wasn't bad
considering he had no modern measuring tools. Since Eratosthenes'
time, many others have made increasingly accurate estimates of the size
and shape of the earth. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_geodesy



"The results of the latest geodetic research since the International
Geophysical Year 1957-8 reveal that the mean polar ***radius*** of the
Earth, as deduced from observation of the orbits of artificial Earth
satellites is 3949.9 miles. Dividing this figure by 10,000,000, the
result is 25.0266 British inches (corrected to four places of
decimals), the precise length of the Sacred Cubit of the Great Pyramid.
Thus the Earth's mean polar radius measures 10,000,000 Sacred Cubits or
250,000,000 Pyramid inches; hence the Pyramid inch is the 500,000,000th
of the Earth's polar diameter (Rutherford 1957:75,76).

Scientists actually call the measuring unit "polar diameter inch".

A google search for the term "polar diameter inch" brings up no
scientific links. Only links to your posts at the EvC forum,
abovetopsecret.com, and a couple of other pyramidology websites. It
seems no scientist uses or has ever used this term


What kind of person would dismiss evidence because he cannot find what
he wants on the Internet ?

A ordinary yuppie.

Forgive me for not having a research library in my pocket. The
internet is a fairly good tool for my purposes.


The phrase "polar diameter inch" to my knowledge was coined by Tom
Valentine in "Great Pyramid: Mans Monument to Man" (1975)

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?&isbn=0523235178&nsa=1

Evidence is primarily found in books, Stile.

Indeed. And the only books you provide as evidence are pyramidological
works which are rejected on the whole by the scientific community and
Egyptologists. If you can provide a peer reviewed journal article that
uses the phrase polar diameter inch then we might have something to
discuss. But at best the phrase is rare and not used by scientists in
general as you claim.



25 pd inches = one GP cubit, or "Sacred Cubit" as Rutherford calls it.

The GP has a square base. Each side measures 365.242 GP cubits = number
of days in the Solar year.

Let me grant for the moment that this cobbled together measurement that
you call the sacred cubit is actually something that the ancient
Egyptians used when building the pyramid. Are you suggesting that the
sides are somehow remarkable, or they didn't know the length of a year?


http://www.egyptarchive.co.uk/his_html/smyth_20.html

Map produced by the United States Coast Survey, Henry Mitchell 1868
source: Peter Lemesurier, "Decoding the Great Pyramid" (1977).

"The Great Pyramid of Gizeh stands at the geometric center and yet at
the southern extremity of the Quadrant. The southern extremity, being
the northenmost edge of the Giza plateau where the Great Pyramid stands
looking over the fan-shaped sector of Egypt, was in ancient times at
the boundary where the cultivated land touched the desert. This plateau
was called Giza, which is the Arabic word for edge or border.

Nope. The word Giza in Arabic means "hewn stone." Also, why would
ancient Egyptians in 2500 BC name the plateau after an Arabic word when
Egyptians didn't begin speaking Arabic until the 7th century CE? The
ancient Egyptians would have called it something else, though I imagine
that name is lost. The Arabs that conquered Egypt in the 7th century
must have just been lucky to refer to Giza by that name so that it
would match Gene Scott's interpretation of Isaiah.


You are entitled to your opinion but it is unsupported like mine.

Actually, the definition of the word Giza is an established fact.
Various baby name sites list "cut" or "hewn" stone as the translation.
My father happens to be Egyptian and a native speaker of Arabic, and he
confirms the translation.

http://www.parenthood.com/babynames_searchresults.html?searchName=Giza
http://www.bubbaboo.com/meaning-of-baby-names.asp?n=Giza

Lastly, you claim the word is an Arabic word, but in fact the origin is
a Hebrew word, probably appropriated by the Arabs.


It was
this unusual location that first suggested the Great Pyramid was the
monument spoken of in the Scriptures by Isaiah the prophet. Since the
full official name of the Pyramid, the Great Pyramid of Giza, means, in
English, the Great Pyramid of the Border, the answer to the apparently
contradictory defintion of Isaiah is found in the Great Pyramid. The
only spot on the face of the Earth that completely answers this
description, both geometrically and geographically, is the precise
place where the Great Pyramid actually stands" (Capt 1971).

Isaiah 19:19,20

"In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the
land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.

Except that the pyramid is not a pillar. Pillars and pyramids are very
different things. And the pyramids are in north central Egypt, not on
the border.


Typical ignorance.

The word in the Hebrew = "monument" (Strongs #04676).

An altar is a place of death OR a place of testimony (Dr. Scott). The
context fits the latter.

Another folk etymology. a define: altar search on google gives a
definition from the Hebrew word meaning "to slay" that an altar is a
structure upon which sacrifices or offerings are made. There's no
evidence that sacrifices or offerings were ever made at the great
pyramid to anyone other than the Pharoah. And certainly no sacrifices
or offerings have been made there for several thousand years.


The GP is exactly on the border of Upper and Lower Egypt AND in the
middle of the Nile-Delta quadrant. This was irrefutably evidenced. You
are wholly dishonest. It is a compliment to the evidence (inability to
refute) and confirms what everyone (40 percent of the U.S.) knows about
Darwinists: not loyal to all evidence, only loyal to evidence that can
be interpreted to support atheist worldview.

What can I say, I mixed up my upper and lower Egypts. Happens. The
city of Memphis was considered the border of Upper and Lower Egypt.
Giza is to the north of Memphis, and is firmly in Lower Egypt. It is
near the border, but not on the border as you claim.




And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in
the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the
oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he
shall deliver them."

Sounds more like a retelling of Exodus than a future prophecy.


Dr. Scott: The location of "in the midst of the land of Egypt" is the
exact center of the Nile-Delta quadrant, and "the border thereof" is
the exact border between Upper and Lower Egypt. Therefore, only in
Egypt can you be in the middle and on the border at the same time. The
GP was built on this exact spot just like the verse says.

http://members.tripod.com/conifer.co/pyramid_scripture.htm

Dr. Scott is incorrect. From the Encyclopedia of the Orient: "The
southern border of Upper Egypt is traditionally at Aswan, in ancient
times Yabu, now on the island of Elephantine. Other definitions set it
Abu Simbel, 280 km further south along the Nile."

Neither Aswan nor Abu Simbel is anywhere near the Giza Plateau


Last comment above reconfirmed.

As I said, I made a mistake, and I retract the statement. When was the
last time you retracted a statement that was mistaken?




The GP was exactly 5449 pd inches from the ground to the original
summit platform, thus providing spectacular corroboration that the
monument identified in Isaiah 19 is the GP.

Except that Isaiah mentions a pillar, not a pyramid, and says nothing
about the height of said pillar.


Only if your ignore all of the evidence and links in the post which you
have done.

Well, first you post that Isaiah says that it's a pillar. When I say
it's a pyramid not a pillar, you say that Isaiah really means a
monument. In either case, Isaiah says nothing about the size of the
monument which seems to be the crux of your argument.



Vandalism and weather has diminished the height of the summit platform
today. No need to worry. The Designer in-built a way to preserve this
measurement. The length of the long descending entry passage followed
to its end after a short horizontal = 5449 pd inches. The combined
length of each Queens Chamber air shafts = 5449 pd inches. The two
Kings Chamber air shafts exit the 101st course and the other the 102nd
course. 101 +102 = 203 = the total number of courses from the ground to
the original summit platform. Somehow the Designer must have known that
the original summit platform would suffer height altering damage
(Lemesurier 1977).

I'm sure you can finagle any number of measurements to come up with the
number you're looking for.


These are exact measurements confirmed by several surveyors taken from
the source cited.

Your comment confirms the evidence and cries "fraud" = what happens
when a Darwinist confronts evidence that destroys his atheist
worldview.

Ray, even if it could be shown that ancient Atlanteans built the
pyramids to exact specifications having to do with the polar diameter
of the earth, I don't see how this would have anything to do with the
validity of biological evolution. Your "evidence" doesn't "shatter my
worldview."


Atheist anthropologists assert tranistional when the validity of their
worldview depends on the identification, yet you never ask for evidence
to support their assertions.

The evidence exists, Ray. There are thousands upon thousands of peer
reviewed articles about the evidence. The pyramidological claims are
pseudoscience and have never been subject to review in any type of
scientific setting.


GP evidence is irrefutable. We have dozens of surveyors figures from
the late 1800s until the late 1970s and they all match. These figures
were obtained by atheists and Christians.

Don't forget all the Muslim Egyptologists either. And I should hope
the figures match since the length of an inch hasn't changed. Oh, but
wait a minute, that's precisely your argument, that the length of the
British inch has changed by the width of a human hair, and that if we
correct for that change then all of a sudden the pyramids tell us the
polar diameter of the earth which is important for some reason.


Your posts are now like Dana's - intentional nonsense indicating
intense anger caused by the inability to refute.

Not angry, more amused, really.

<snip Ray calling me an atheist>

You have completely evaded the specifics of my initial post that began
the GP excursion. You did so with deliberate nonsense. We know why
persons do this (inability to refute).

Now you have produced a little diddy after ad hoc-ing your way around
the Internet. We who know Egypt and its wonders know those who are in
the same league. As much as I would like to engage you nontheless, for
reasons already stated above, and for reasons just stated, and because
I really have no time, and because the excursion into the GP was to
answer Clayton and Tweedy pertaining to Turkana boy, the purpose of
this post is to let you know that I read your post and that I will not
be continuing the farce (with all due respect).

Ken Shaw: If you read this, I Iook forward to the day we can tangle and
discuss Egypt and its pyramids. I think you might be in our league
(please excuse the condenscension - none intended).

I will continue with Clayton and Tweedy if they choose to continue with
me about Turkana and the Stone Age. Of course, everyone can post. All I
am saying is that I do not want a GP excursion, but I do want to engage
the original topic of Turkana etc.etc.

And Brave Sir Raymond shows his true colors once again-- yellow on the
belly and scared white everywhere else.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Ken Shaw: Pinch Yourself
    ... We know the GP was exactly 5449 polar diameter inches from the ground ... Earth intentionally with held the evidence of intermediacy, ... the precise length of the Sacred Cubit of the Great Pyramid. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Ken Shaw: Pinch Yourself
    ... We know the GP was exactly 5449 polar diameter inches from the ground ... Earth intentionally with held the evidence of intermediacy, ... the precise length of the Sacred Cubit of the Great Pyramid. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Great Pyramid Excursion Debate Cancelled
    ... We know the GP was exactly 5449 polar diameter inches from the ground ... Earth intentionally with held the evidence of intermediacy, ... the precise length of the Sacred Cubit of the Great Pyramid. ... The Arabs that conquered Egypt in the 7th century ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Ken Shaw: Pinch Yourself
    ... We know the GP was exactly 5449 polar diameter inches from the ground ... the precise length of the Sacred Cubit of the Great Pyramid. ... The Arabs that conquered Egypt in the 7th century ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Challenge for Seanpit
    ... Scientists have no respect for Creationists because Creationists have earned ... Rejecting contrary evidence that does not support one's ... The Great Pyramid was constructed using fairly basic technology. ... Its not a matter of opinion: Darwin rejected God ...
    (talk.origins)
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