Re: Ann Coulter, holocaust

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 11:15:58 GMT,
Ye Old One <usenet@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 20 Aug 2006 02:57:48 GMT, AC <mightymartianca@xxxxxxxxx> enriched
this group when s/he wrote:

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 09:41:17 GMT,
Ye Old One <usenet@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:43:01 +0200, nmp <address@xxxxxxxxxx> enriched
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Op Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:43:05 +0000, schreef Ye Old One:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:30:27 +0200, nmp <address@xxxxxxxxxx> enriched
this group when s/he wrote:

Op Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:33:30 +0000, schreef Ye Old One:

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:25:32 GMT, Nashton <nananan@xxxxx> enriched
this group when s/he wrote:



I think the sooner Canada drops one of its official languages the
better.

I see. So you get to go tell that the Quebecois and the Acadians that
they will no longer be getting Federal correspondence in French.

I would love to :)

You are aware, I trust, that there is an historical context to all of this,
including a Sovereigntist movement. The point of official bilingualism is
to make Canada a nation inclusive to one of its founding groups. Surely
cost of business isn't the only measure of a policy.




Even if it were true (which I strongly doubt)

Translation costs alone would add to costs.

But 8% to all business costs? Where on Terra did you ever get the 8% from?
Just out of thin air, I presume?

I partly based it on my experiance selling software products through
Canadian distributors in the 1980s. With overseas customers like them
we used to allow them to do local production under licence. The extra
costs for the canadian problem added over 30% to overall production
costs and nearly 20% to advertising costs to produce the same sales.
This was in addition to the initial cost of producing a French version
which was only viable because the costs were shared with the
distributor in France.

And what? You had no distributors in Germany or Italy? Perhaps everyone
should start speaking English, just to make your business viable.

Actually, only France and Canada ever wanted translations of the
software, and only they and some arab countries wanted local language
instructions. Most people using computers in those days already knew
English. English is already the international language of business.

Is Microsoft wasting time making a German version of Windows?


Nearer to home we have the Welsh language problem which costs the UK a
lot of money each year.

Is there a Welsh language problem? Do elaborate.

It costs the rest of the UK quite a lot of money.

How much precisely?

The last time I saw figures, which was a few years ago, duel language
road signs in Wales added 35% to the cost of each sign. Welsh road
users don't pay any extra.

How much does a sign cost to produce?


The Welsh language TV service costs about £24 million per year over
and above normal costs.[source BBC annual report 2003). Most of that
comes in direct subsidy from government.

Last time I checked, a good chunk of broadcasting of any kind in the UK
had a healthy government subsidy.



I bet the Welsh do not have such a problem with their own language, or do
they? Is it again just the English who have the problem, who want to make
life easier for themselves? Perhaps even wish to assert their cultural and
economic dominance within Great Britain?

If the welsh paid for their language it would not matter, but it is
the whole of the UK that pays.

The UK gets to foot the bill because the English seized Wales.

So? That was one hell of a long time ago. Wales is as much a part of
the UK and the rest.

And yet is still a region separate in many ways from England and Scotland.



Or is it "efficiency" that the English are worried about? Yes, it is
always more efficient if crazy, uncivilized peoples speak your language,
and not the other way around. Hooray for colonialism!

A child in a Welsh school is at a disadvantage over his English
counterpart because the law requires time is spent learning welsh.

There was a day and an age when some kids were taught Latin and Greek.

Which would actually produce good results.

Children are quite capable of learning multiple languages. In fact, it's
the very best time to teach them.

It is, I agree. Let's just teach them a language that will do them
some good.

Preserving a people's culture isn't doing some good?


But please do provide the evidence that Welsh children are at a disadvantage.

School results prove it. "Last summer, [2004] 54% [of English
children] achieved five or more A* to C grade GCSEs, compared to 51%
in Wales." (Times Eucational Supplement Cymru, 10 June 2005)

If kids can be taught Greek and Latin and still make the grade, then that
suggests that there may be other problems with the education system, no?



I don't think Canada has much of a choice in this. In a country with two
such large language groups a government simply must make provisions.
That is not being stupid, that is just being fair.

The US manages with a single official language.

As has been pointed out, the USA does not (historically) have an official
language. Some of the individual States do, and among those there are a
few that recognize official languages besides English. You can look them
up on Wikipedia, as I just did...

It is also necessary to keep the peace in that country, I have heard ;)

Yes, I think that is true. These days of course the simple fact that
most books and scientific publications tend to appear in English first
has meant that the Frecnh side are fighting a battle they cannot win.

Do you honestly think French speakers in Canada (or anywhere else) are
missing out on books and science?

Yes.

Care to provide the evidence?

That most science books and other publications are published in
English first.

What do you suppose the delay is on translation into French, particularly
in a country with a goodly number of bilingual individuals?



That all the wisdom expressed in the
English language is completely lost on them somehow,

No, just delayed.

and that they don't
have any of their own?

Nowhere near as much as that published in English.

Do you ever read a book or any other kind of publication in French? And if
you do, do you get the impression that French speaking people are living
in the Dark Ages?

You distort the issue.

It seems to me that the distortion is yours.

I've distorted nothing.

You're right. You've simplified it down to the point where the only complaint
is that it cost extra money, and act as if that's the only standard that the
policy should be measured by.



They may even be ahead of you. I am willing to bet that in spite of their
smaller numbers, more French speaking people have a reasonable knowledge
of English than vice versa.

Oh very true, they have to have that because French is no longer a
major language in the fields of science, technology or business.

Please do keep up the fight with the Welsh though. The world is counting
on you to deal with them. How dare those simple brutes persist in speaking
that incomprehensible, barbaric tongue of theirs.

They are welcome to speak it - as long as it does not cost me money.

And then it comes down to this sort of nonsense. Yes, yes, we know. And
roads in other towns shouldn't paved with your money, either.


Again, distortion from you. Why?

Not a distortion, simply another example of the typical "it's my tax dollars"
complaint.

You do not have absolute rights over your tax dollars. You can try to get
policies changed, but it's a democracy.

I suspect the issue of teaching Welsh to Welsh children really doesn't bother
very many people at all. What's more, as I indicated, if children can be
taught multiple languages in school and still perform well, then you appear
to be fallaciously linking the teaching of Welsh with poorer grades.

--
Aaron Clausen
mightymartianca@xxxxxxxxx

.

Relevant Pages

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  • Re: Re: Ann Coulter, holocaust
    ... Translation costs alone would add to costs. ... should start speaking English, just to make your business viable. ... English is already the international language of business. ... Is there a Welsh language problem? ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Ann Coulter, holocaust
    ... a very real need to defend their language against those Anglophones who ... Translation costs alone would add to costs. ... This was in addition to the initial cost of producing a French version ... Is it again just the English who have the problem, ...
    (talk.origins)