Re: Darwinism causes people to stop loving each other


Curt Welch wrote:
"stew dean" <stewdean@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
nando_ronteltap@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
It makes no difference, contemplate the electron ending up on the left
or right slit, supposing it is true it may end up at either one, or a
human being marrying or not, it is essentially spiritual. And no
religionist would deny it.

They have and do deny it. Ask a chritian scientists and you'll be
told, quite clearly, electrons do not make decissions as they do not
have a brain.

It's that incredibly simple. No brain, no decission. No thinking, no
choice. No sun, no sunlight.

How can something descide if it has no way to make a decission?

There are ways of deciding which does not not need a normal brain.

I'm happy to accept abnormal brains as well.

The process of evolution is constantly making decisions about the design of
life but yet it has no brain (or at least, not a system that most people
would label as a brain).

Not realy decision - evolution filters so includes no conscoius
processes except in the interaction between brain enabled individuals.

I actually argue however that ID is correct in that there is an
intelligence at work shaping live on earth. That Intelligence however is
just natural selection.

Which has all the intelligence of a seive. Now I'm no alien to gaiaism
and there is apparant guiding processes in play but these porcesses
have no foresight making them distinct from forward looking decisions.
Any illusion of foresight is wishful thinking.

What the brain does for us is actually the same type of process at work, so
if you can label a brain as a device producing intelligent behavior, then I
argue it's also valid to consider a species as a whole as one large
distributed intelligent agent as well.

That is true - it's called emergence. A bee hive, for example, is more
intelligent than a single bee.

The brain evolves its behavior
though a process of natural selection (conditioning)

Hold up - natural selection is not the same as conditioning...

just like a species
evolves it's behavior (it's genetic makeup) through a process of natural
selection. A human brain just works on a time scale which is far shorter
(years instead of millions of years).

There are some links between these but it's not quite the same. Memes,
as opposed to genes, have different behavours but do compete and
cooperate.

To me, an evolutionist that argues there is no intelligence at work
creating life is just as wrong as a creationist arguing that there is an
intelligent 3rd party responsible for creating life.

I stick with the 'no external intelligence' point of view. Yes there
are complex process going on and intelligence is a complex system but,
for simplicity, it's possible to make a distinction between this
intelligence and between the complex process. Likewise there is a
different between the apparant life of the whole planet and the life of
a individual, although there are grey areas.


The evolutionist
needs to understand there is intelligence at work,

I'm always suspect of any phrase that is preceded by 'must'. You first
have to clearly demonstrate your point before you can claim someone
must act upon it. I know quote abit about complex systems and emergence
that I feel will cover the are you have labeled 'intelligence. I'll
also drag life into the mix by the way as life and itelligence are very
very closely linked.

and the creationist
needs to understand that the process of evolution is the intelligence
behind ID.

Urm - I think they're currently incompatable - see 'irriducible
complexity'.

Stew Dean

.

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