Re: What's the Problem?


Jim Spaza wrote:
Robin Levett wrote:

<snip>

And Adam and Eve didn't "know the morality"; the whole point of the
prohibition was that they weren't supposed to learn the morality.

They knew all that they needed to know about morality - obey God. No
tricks. No complexity. No grey areas. One simple rule - don't eat
from one particular tree.

I think you're right, Jim. No complexity, no tricks, no grey areas.
Adam and Eve didn't develop a moral sense until they had eaten the
fruit. It was therefore impossible for them to have known before that
point that disobeying God was a wrong thing to do. In short, Adam and
Eve didn't fall from grace: they was pushed!

Of course, the whole thing could just be a literary device, intended to
demonstrate that people aren't perfect...

<snip>

But they didn't know it was wrong to disobey.

Yeah, they did. Otherwise, why did they need to be tempted by Satan?
How can you tempt someone to do something if they are not resistant to
the idea in the first place?

That's backwards, Jim. You can only tempt someone to do something if
they have some inclination to do it anyway. With temptation, you are
trying to overcome the reason why they are holding back.

<snip>

This must be some different kind of sin than the one which requires
knowledge of good and evil, then.

Same sin. Just different dynamics at play.

Try again. They didn't know the difference between good and evil - how
could their actions be sinful if knowledge of that distinction is required
for an action to be sinful?

I don't know. The Genesis account is all I have to study. Some things
are not spelled out.

It's basic logic, Jim. Nothing to be frightened of.

<snip>

If they don't learn
morals from somewhere else and just make them their own, then they must
create their own.

As does everybody.

I don't. I'm not trying to be holier-than-thou. I really don't create
my own morality. It's all referenced back to the Bible or what I
believe are supernatural experiences where I am guided.

Yes, you do, Jim. You just don't want to admit it. You cherry-pick the
bible just like any good Christian does. And you take out of it those
things that you agree with, and rationalize away those that you don't
agree with.

It's not like atheists read a book and adopt the book's moral code,
right?

Do you really believe that that makes a morality an objective one?

Yes, because everyone can reference that exact same moral source.

Yikes! What is it precisely that makes you think that the author of a
book is being objective when he writes the book? You're just suggesting
that it is perfectly objective to adopt someone else's subjective
opinions. Ouch! (insincere emoticon follows) ;-)

<snip>

.

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