Re: IDer Scours the Quote Mines

On 7 Jul 2006 08:39:18 -0700, jgrisham@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

Frank J wrote:
jgrisham@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
coaster wrote:
jgrisham@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
UC wrote:
jgrisham@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
michael.palmer1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Chadwell, Darwin and Scopes All Agree That Students Should Critically
Analyze Evolution

Pete Chadwell, a graphic artist in Bend, Oregon understands what so
many Darwinists don't: students are being short changed in their
science education when they learn only half the story about evolution.
Teaching students both the scientific strengths and weaknesses is good
education, good science, and good for students.

Darwin himself would support this approach to teaching evolution. As
Darwin wrote in the Origin of Species,

"A fair result can be obtained only by fully stating and balancing the
facts and arguments on both sides of each question."

And as science teacher John Scopes said some 80 or so years ago,
"If you limit a teacher to only one side of anything, the whole country
will eventually have only one thought. ... I believe in teaching every
aspect of every problem or theory."

So, now we have Pete Chadwell who has an excellent article in today's
Bend Bulletin. Here's what Pete says:

If one believes we should continue to conceal the evidence against
evolution, one must answer some very tough questions: What good can
possibly come from withholding scientific evidence against ANY
scientific theory? How does that not undermine the integrity of science
itself? Isn't scientific experimentation and discovery supposed to be
transparent? How is it fair to our children to withhold this evidence?

If, on the other hand, one believes our students SHOULD be taught about
the evidences against evolution, then another set of interesting
questions is raised: Why has it taken so long for just five states to
adopt standards which require nothing more than an objective
presentation of evolutionary theory in the classroom? What are
evolutionists protecting? What is the rationale for having withheld
this evidence and deceived so many students for so many years?

You can read the rest here.

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2006/07/chadwell_darwin_and_scopes_all.html


The role of public education is not open debate. We don't debate
American History, although there might be cause to do so. We don't
debate mathematics. We don't debate grammar. We don't debate foreign
language. We don't debate physical education. And we don't debate
science. Each course is presented in a manner judged by academics to
best teach the subject and it is taught without debate, division or
confusion. We teach a curriculum designed to invest in each student a
common set of ideas, ideals and impressions. The role of public
education is to unify a diverse society by giving them the same base of
common knowledge.


JTG 7/5/06

Provided that there IS indeed agreement.

What kind of agreement do you believe a state bureaucracy would need to
entertain?


JTG later on 7/5/06

Most state education officials are elected. So ideally, agreement
(which I define as rules or bills enacted into law or a proclamation of
standards), is based on the majority opinion of the electee's
constituency. That's how democracy works. If we were really running a
bureaucracy then it would seem reasonable to believe that we would not
find school boards waffling around on certain issues as they are. So
I'd have to say you're wrong on this point. But I still agree that one
of the many roles of public education is to, as you said, "unify
society by giving them the same base of common knowledge". I liked how
you put that.

Hmmm... Yes, democracy. Sure, if that's what you want to believe...
there is some limited democracy involved. School Boards hire a
Superintendent to run their district... It's like the Roman Senate
selecting a new Caesar or a corporation hiring a CEO. Certainly,
there's some oversight. I'm sure Enron's Board of Directors were fully
aware of their CEO's actions, just as the Roman Senate watched as Nero
fiddled while Rome burned. While it's posssible for school boards to
intervene, it's destructive to the relationship between a school board
and its superintendent, so it rarely occurs. Sort of the problem the
Roman Senate faced in terminating Julius.


JTG 7/6/06

As Churchill said, democracy is the worst form of govt. - except for
all the others.

You'll forgive me if I'm not impressed by the opinion on democracy of a
person who held office in a Constitutional Monarchy.

You'll forgive me if I'm not impressed by the opinion on Constitutional
Monarchy of a person who has not been a subject of it.

I'm sure Stalin
and Hitler had some insights, as well. But none of these forms of
government genuinely had any interest in democracy. "King and Country"
is by no stretch of the imagination "Of the People, By the People and
For the People". The sense of Churchill's statement was to play tribute
to American democracy

The sense of Churchills statement was to say that all forms government
essentially fail at their role, and democracy failure was the least
harmful to its people.

as the lifeline for British supply and
reinforcement throughout World War II.

Throughout?. Pray tell just when do you consider WWII to have begun.

It must have seemed ironic to
Churchill, how easily our democracy was to manpulate.

Yeah, the U.S. was so quick to endorse overwhelming support for the
Commonwealth.

.

Relevant Pages

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  • Re: IDer Scours the Quote Mines
    ... science education when they learn only half the story about evolution. ... Teaching students both the scientific strengths and weaknesses is good ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: IDer Scours the Quote Mines
    ... science education when they learn only half the story about evolution. ... Teaching students both the scientific strengths and weaknesses is good ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: IDer Scours the Quote Mines
    ... science education when they learn only half the story about evolution. ... Teaching students both the scientific strengths and weaknesses is good ...
    (talk.origins)
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