Re: religious fanaticism: USA versus Europe

Robin Levett wrote:
wf3h wrote:


ah. so you're denying citizens of EU member countries have the right to
appeal to EU courts if they think their rights are violated by national
laws?

is that what you're saying?

I don't know whether he is, but I am saying so.

don't follow EU law do you? because a number of people have done
EXACTLY that.


and my point...which you keep trying to handwave away...is that some
european countries DO have laws which appease islamists by persecuting
those who criticize them.

Some European countries have laws that appease religionists by prosecuting
people who bring them into contempt.

gee. i just said that. glad you agree. and fallaci says it's applied
exclusively to those who 'insult' islam. perhaps you can tell me when
someone's been tried for insulting xtianity...


My country, for example, had a
blasphemy law which applied only to Christianity. There is now a religious
hatred law analogous to our race hatred laws.

now let me see...there is NOW a law which protects OTHER religions....

when's the last time someone got prosecuted for blaphemy against
xtianity?




So, I can speak only for my country and the fact is that we *do* have
laws that make "blasphemy" punishable and some more nonsense like that.
These laws are remnants of less civilized times, when they were used to
protect the *Christian* religion. They are not abolished, because even in
the "ultra liberal" Netherlands we still have conservatives... But I can
tell you that any case brought before a judge seeking a conviction on the
grounds of these articles will be all but laughed out of court, whether
claimants are Christians or Muslims.

hmmm...fallaci found out otherwise.

No. Didn't you read where it said that the prosecutor moved for dismissal
of the prosecution.

i suggest you read what SHE said. when's the last time anyone was
prosecuted for blasphemy against xtianity? SHE said it was only those
who 'insulted' islam that got nailed.

so, apparently some EUROPEANS think you have appeasers in your midst. i
didn't write the 'new yorker' article, nor is my name fallaci.

EU laws allow nationals in any EU member country to appeal to EU courts
if they feel their rights are violated by national laws.

Wrong.

really? you know, i'm tired of having to educate you europeans about
your OWN laws. take, for example, the case of

Dudgeon v. United Kingdom was a European Court of Human Rights case,
similar to the U.S. cases Bowers v. Hardwick and Lawrence v. Texas.

Jeffrey Dudgeon was a shipping clerk and gay activist in Belfast,
Northern Ireland when he was interrogated by the Royal Ulster
Constabulary about his sexual activities. He filed a complaint with the
European Commission of Human Rights, which declared his complaint
admissible to the European Court of Human Rights. On 22 October 1981,
the Court agreed with the commission that Northern Ireland's
criminalisation of homosexual acts between consenting adults was a
violation of Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights

then there's

Murray v. United Kingdom was a legal case heard by the European Court
of Human Rights in 1994 to determine if part of the United Kingdom's
anti-terrorism laws were in violation of the Convention for the
Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms.

The case was referred to the Court on April 7, 1993 from an application
lodged on September 28, 1988 relating to events occurring in 1982. The
case was heard in the Human Rights Building, Strasbourg, on January 24,
1994 and the Chamber delivered their judgement on October 28, 1994.

The applicants were six Irish citizens, all members of the same family
- Margaret Murray, Thomas Murray, Mark Murray, Alana Murray, Michaela
Murray and Rossina Murray.

these citations are from 'wikipedia'

shall I go on, or do you feel it's YOUR obligation to become informed
about YOUR laws?



aware of anyone prosecuted for 'offending' christianity?

David Lemon, Gay News Limited and the publishers of Gay News were convicted
of blasphemous libel for publishing " The Love That Dares To Speak Its
Name" in 1977; the editor got a nine-month sentence, suspended for 18
months. IT got to the House of Lords, which affirmed the conviction and
sentence.

ah, well. 30 years ago. yes, i see your point. the culture in europe
has remained static for 30 years...islam was as big a presence in
europe 3 decades ago as it is today...



fallaci
pointed out that case law in this regard does not exist. you may
DISAGREE with the assessment, but it's hardly an 'uniformed' one when
fallaci...who IS a european...states EXACTLY what i said earlier.


Then she's wrong. I believe that the Last Temptation of Christ had its own
troubles in Austria in the 1990s; as did Visions of Ecstasy in the UK more
recently than that.


funny she and hirsi, saying the same thing about european appeasement
of islamists keep running into problems you say are impossible because
appeasement doesn't exist in europe...

.

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