my worldview

(Please stick with me as I take different sides to reach a conclusion,
am totally aware I may be missing something, I despise religion, and
only seek the truth;)) Let me think where to start...it's much more
likely that natural phenomenon (like quantum fluctuations) that leads
to the existence of matter and energy, somehow fundamentally exist,
rather than some fundamental reason existing for intelligence (God) to
exist. This stems from the fact that intelligence is basically an
information processor (with added creativity somehow), and a good
information processor itself must posses much rich information (by rich
information I mean basically useful information, not a simple pattern
or random rubbish, but instead highly varied and in large volume). And
to make this rich information for an information processor (i.e. an
intelligence), intelligence is needed (I'll get to rich information
arising from randomness and natural selection in a sec), so what we end
up with is an infinite series of Gods if we try to use the God
explanation. Whereas some physical laws that lead to the formation of
matter and energy could theoretically be written down with a few mere
equations--not a whole lot of rich information there--could at least
conceivably result from some fundamental reason. What I'm saying is if
this universe only consisted of matter and energy, I'd put my money on
it resulting from some naturalistic cause, along with all the galaxies,
suns, planets, water cycles, etc. But unfortunately there is more
than just inanimate structures--there's those darn biological system
thingies that have to rear their ugly heads. Yea, biological systems,
right down to a single cell, possesses a heckofa lot of info, so much
that any mathematician or cellular biologist in the know will concede
that the roughly 15 billion years of the universe's life isn't even
close to enough time for cellular structures to randomly form, even
with very favorable conditions in the statistical calculation (as to
self assembly mechanisms that guide towards the formation of some
reproducing thingy, like stuff accumulating on crystals and such,
there's just no hope, as I can point you to some old research
attempts I've seen, basically because to reach the level of
sophistication necessary to get natural selection on its way, the
necessary information content is just too damn rich--the steps and
jumps are too big). That's why we go to pondering if there's
multiple universes out there...because with enough universes-say
close to an infinite number-well, basically anything can happen. So
there you go, in one particular universe, on one particular planet, the
amazing happens-a reproducing energy consuming cell thingy is
assembled by mere random interactions-oh what a beautiful sight, just
like a 747 really being assembled by a tornado, or gas flowing back
into a container! And it can happen simply because there are an
unlimited number of breeding grounds in universe after universe (given
that there is somehow conditions that every time a more complex
molecule or molecular structure is formed, it somehow is not
immediately destroyed so that it can undergo further developments (by
chance)), until finally rich information is born...in such a way that
it can now be self improving through natural selection! Oh boy, the
possibilities are really endless now, because once you let natural
selection loose, well, the possibilities are endless...that little
sucker improves itself right up to how we see ourselves today.

Man oh man do I wish I could go with this...but there is still a
problem...that I just cannot forget about if I am to remain honest to
myself (it's all about keeping that honesty!). Ok so we got some
biological cells in one of these universes, and they are sometimes
experiencing random mutations, a few of which give survival benefits
and so ultimately get passed down. More cells mean a more resilient
system, a little protrusion mutation with some kind of actuation
deformity lets it get propelled to new more food rich areas in the sea.
Some weird kind of rudimentary information processor coupled to some
simplistic weird sensor thingy lets it be more effective at finding
food areas. I could even possibly see some kind of "symmetry
mechanism" mutation forming by chance such that under the influence of
hydrodynamics, the damn thing can swim straight instead of going in
circles. Organs form, blood and nerve circuits form, yada yada. The
main place where I really get stuck is the gills, believe it or not.
As gill tissue mutates now and then, it may acquire a new bump or
convolution, increasing surface area and hence total oxygen transfer,
allowing the organism to further develop. Besides increasing surface
area, it's known that water flow opposite in direction to the flow of
blood in the gill tissue is most effective in oxygen transfer. So some
bump and convolution mutations will be more favorable than others,
depending on their orientation to the front of the organism (front
being determined by which way the turd swims). So what we should end
up with is a bumpy and convoluted mess of gill tissue (but hey it does
the job) with the bumps and convolutions favoring a particular
direction. Instead, if you look at any fish gill (google images),
you'll see three levels of structure. There are 1) a few big bony
"ribs," with each rib hanging a 2) bunch of fibers, and each fiber
having microscopic 3) fibers. Now since natural selection cannot think
ahead, it's unlikely to create an "engineered design" like this.
Instead, even if these three levels of structure could result from some
weird repeating and fractal mechanisms, there would still be some out
of order or "ugly" misplaced bumps, fibers, etc. because they
transfer oxygen just as effectively as those that are cosmetically well
placed. But all we see is cosmetics, no ugliness (no misplacements).
There is no way that all the ugly places fibers could grow are
functionally inferior to the cosmetically placed fibers-the main
constraints being only surface area and water flow direction.

As one looks more and more at biological systems and oneself, it
becomes more and more clear how silly it is to think that we and other
animals are the result of random formation processes (just freakin look
at yourself dude!). So we are left with two possibilities. The first
is that somewhere in our universe a grotesque life form came into
existence by chance (i.e. many universes allows for this), possibly as
some blob spread over a large area of some planet. It happens to be
highly intelligent, and also has some kind of manipulator(s). It sees
itself and it's ugliness, and therefore it realizes it likely arose
through chance, and there is no God, nothing beyond this life. Due to
seeking more designed beautiful systems, through tireless effort, it
makes biological systems (fish gills and us) of high cosmetic value,
and puts us on a planet, leaving behind no fregin clues as to where we
came from besides our cosmetic value. Thus we are left open the
possibility of there being a God, and thus are spared the hard
realizations that our creator blob was faced with. The second
possibility is that there is some intelligence (God) that is not
limited to within this universe but instead principally resides in some
other universe that by different conditions somehow allows for its
existence. The thing is, using simple information theory, there is no
way that this God, necessarily containing rich information itself,
could just exist without being formed by chance (as discussed earlier,
rich information is not like simple physical laws. Rather the origin of
rich information requires either intelligence or lots and lots of
random trials).

So why not go with the first possibility? Well I don't know, but it
just seems unlikely. Instead what I bank on is that in the second
possibility, the universe that God dwells in, is like really weird, not
just with more dimensions or something, but so totally bizarre that
simple information theory logic can be defied-that is, somehow rich
information can exist without a source or something. The funny thing
is, this is totally absurd, but it's all we've got. It really
sucks to not know how such a fregin thing is possible, but we just have
to accept that this other realm must be, like, really, really, really
weird, bizarre, etc. But that's all we got, either we were designed
by a grotesque but intelligent blob, or we were designed by a weird but
intelligent God.

Any evolutionary arguments that you have against Intelligent Design (ID
was known since the dawn of thinking man by the way) I would love to
hear, because I can show you they all amount to moot when analyzed.
You see, like I said it sucks to say that as it stands, we cannot know
more about our fregin origins besides that there is this voodoo
intelligence in a different hokey poky reality, and of course science
can never say lets just give up and write it off to the
supernatural--if we did that for thunder we'd still believe it was
Thor's hammer. But with life origins that's actually what your
stuck with. And furthermore religion, which is (or should be) totally
separate from ID, really just ultimately screws up the world, besides
perhaps providing some helpful life strategies to some. But it's not
a surprise that religion gets so mucky, because it is ultimately
founded on the issue of our origins--where the heck we came from and
where the heck were going-which can obviously stir some emotions.
Bad people manipulate other people this way, etc.

Since I'm getting tired, I'll end with saying, does it even really
matter what we believe? Well, besides our origins being obviously
interesting (but as I said we're basically left to wonder), I'd say
knowing that a God exists then leaves open the possibility that what we
do really may have more consequences than what happens on this earth
(that is if God is so kind as to make an afterlife). But then again,
maybe this life is just to garner experience for another life, or there
is no other life. But since I don't know what the heck God's
intentions are, and I really want to see or at least know a little more
about that wacky tacky other realm (which obviously is absolutely
nothing like what heaven is lamely portrayed as), I'm going to play
it safe and try harder to do what I know (genetically endowed
knowledge?) is right. I think probably the most important thing I've
ever learned is that in order to be truly honest with myself, I have to
bite the bullet in regards to biological origins and accept that that
funky realm really just is beyond my present understanding (not
necessarily my capacity, but what I'm used to--a bad analogy is trying
to visualize the fourth spatial dimension), until something in that
other realm reaches out, if ever.

.

Relevant Pages

  • WE HAVE ALREADY BEEN ALIVE FOREVER
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  • Re: Re: funny creationsist
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    (talk.origins)
  • Re: my worldview
    ... information processor itself must posses much rich information (by rich ... up with is an infinite series of Gods if we try to use the God ... that the roughly 15 billion years of the universe's life isn't even ... there you go, in one particular universe, on one particular planet, the ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Atheists are the biggest fools on Earth
    ... Jim Spaza wrote: ... It's an issue of whether the origins of the Universe are, at some point, the ... God can do it any way He pleases. ... Only a small number of possible universes can sustain life. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Re: Atheists are the biggest fools on Earth
    ... shown that there can be life otherwise. ... But our universe exists, it is the only one we can know, therefore the ... Because after 15 billion years there is no evidence for a god. ... If there are no humans to do evil, then how can God's inaction define ...
    (talk.origins)