Re: topmind: ID is potentially testable


"topmind" <topmind@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Zachriel wrote:
"topmind" <topmind@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Zachriel wrote:
"topmind" <topmind@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Zachriel wrote:
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Zachriel wrote:
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Horse wash. It predicts that detectable artifacts may be left
over
from
the engineering.


Detectable? But you keep forgetting to tell us how to detect them.
You
have
put forth no specific empirical consequences.

Alas! You had once been specific. You said to test for a
conventional
bitmap
of the Mona Lisa. I showed that prior searches would almost
certainly
have
discovered any such a pattern. Your contention was found false that
no
one
has used search methodology likely to have found such patterns.


If it has, then you would have presented the situation or paper, now
wouldn't you? If X happened, then show evidence that X actually
happened. Your "must have" stance is just playing lame.


Finding Mona is just such a test - done at your own insistence. I
published
the results and made the code available for public inspection. It's
written
in VBasic so it is easy to understand. There is no conventional image
of
a
Mona Lisa hidden in the genome examined.

Come on, now. You offered no evidence that past researchers have
actually followed up on any statistical outliers.


Your continued handwaving is irrelevant. There is no conventional bitmap
image of the Mona Lisa (or just about any other such image) in the
genome
examined.

Would you also suggest that SETI give up after the first star on the
first frequency tried?


A tentative assertion can be made that life on Earth is not unique (due to
the principle of mediocrity and the ubiquity of carbon chemistry). This
could lead to various speculations, including your own DNA-ID. However, any
civilization that could manipulate genomes on Earth would also most likely
leave other evidence, such as tell-tale electromagnetic signatures of their
existence that would presumably be detectable. So, you would have to suppose
that not only did ETI travel interstellar space to leave a message in the
genomes on Earth (an unknown designer with unknown motives with an unknown
mechanism, leaving no trace), but that such a message survived over eons of
time, and that all other evidence has been left undetected thus far. SETI
assumes far less and is more in line with what would be expected from the
available evidence.

There is another very significant difference. The genome has been searched
extensively by very sophisticated pattern analysis algorithms. And the
patterns that have been detected thus far have been determined to be due to
natural ad hoc evolutionary processes. (Your ignorance of how these
algorithms work is not evidence and is not convincing.) Radio emissions from
space have not been extensively analyzed for doppler-shifted narrow-band
spectrum emissions. Once a scan of the local galactic region has been
completed, this will put limits on the plausible number of ETI in the
galaxy. The results of these specific tests would have to be accounted for
by any future research program.

Still another difference. SETI is specific, and your own DNA-ID is vague and
ill-considered.

Finally, your DNA-ID speculation is contrary to the available evidence.

I note you have never even bothered to look, even after months of talking
about it. Others might be willing to take your speculations more seriously
if you would actually listen when they try to explain why your speculation
does not constitute a scientific hypothesis.

Speculation is great! And perhaps it might lead to something, if only a
better understanding of the nature of pattern. But your constant conflations
do little to advance the discussion.


--
Zachriel
"The scientific method: hypothesis, prediction, observation, validation,
repeat."
http://zachriel.blogspot.com/2005/08/scientific-method.html






Nor did you analyse
that bright spot in the middle to see if it had some other image, pi,
primes, or languages.


I certainly did examine it for images. I then explained two different
ways I
analyzed it. Then you waved your hands.

Where are your framing tests? I didn't see your framing tests on that
spot.


It wasn't necessary. We know that most images have a distinct statistical
signature. In addition, we can closely examine the patterns and see that
they were not due to image, but were artifacts of how the eye creates
patterns even when none exist. Did you even bother to zoom into the image
and look as I suggested? Would it make any difference to you if the results
were negative? You have convinced me that it wouldn't make any difference,
that evidence is irrelevant to you.


--
Zachriel, angel that rules over memory, presides over the planet Jupiter.
http://zachriel.blogspot.com/





-T-



.

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