Re: falsification - trying again - no slide rules please.


Trimmed to just talk.origins as the last several notes are
between howlers, and the other groups don't know the Once
Hollow Earth theory.

In article <cabal-slrne9d90h.gqj.dgreig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
David Iain Greig <dgreig@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Robert Grumbine <bobg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <j1g89252flb5u4nfvlkaemihgoitjoq5dv@xxxxxxx>,
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:26:46 -0000, in talk.origins , bobg@xxxxxxxxx
(Robert Grumbine) in <12961fmkpvcgo82@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[snip]

If anything, a harder problem. There are 3 different angular
momentum constraints. It is likely impossible that material
which would satisfy one would be able to satisfy the other
two as well (earth rotation, earth-moon orbit, earth-moon-sun
orbit).

To which, of course, I ask *you* to show your math. Then, after you do
all that work (please don't bother), I will find some minor point and
re-direct the discussion.

I may actually do it. But not today, and I realize the jest.
The milankovitch issues are interesting. I might be able to do
something with that in my work.

Except the 'new' mass, if it's not infalling to the planet... how
does it acquire momentum, at least in non-random direction?
Given the lack of terran resufacing events, the matter must be created
in the core. Hence it can't be anything that would be stopped by
the crust, right? That leaves energy or non-interacting particles
like neutrinos. I suppose various muons/etc. could contribute.
Can *any* high-energy photons make it down to the core? Even if
it was photons, the amount of solar energy making it to the core of
the planet must be a vanishingly small fraction of total solar
energy output, FURTHER complicating the 'Don needs 100,000,000 times
the amount of energy received by the Earth from the Sun to power his
model (which he denies having)'.

Ugh. Then this new matter, where does it get momentum from to maintain
the earth's precise orbital mechanics? Ugh.

Some of the relative newcomers to talk.origins should look up
the Once Hollow Earth Theory and the Laminar Flood Theory.
David is engaging in the same game, except he hasn't come up with
a catchy name for his theory yet.

Irrespective of where and how the new matter is emplaced, there
are a lot of problems. The continental crust includes extensive
areas over 2 billion years old. Even more extensive areas are
greater than the ca. 300 million years of the onset of earth expansion
as selected by the expanding earthers. So, for example, if the
mass source is extraterrestrial, then it has to be amazingly selective
about where it falls -- only hitting ocean basins, while containing
exactly the same geochemistry as the other oceanic materials, letting
itself magnetize according to the earth's then-current field, and
immediately turning in to igneous rock (vs. being an infall of
sediment -- which is observed).

For the newly created matter, adding 8 times the pre-expansion mass
(irrespective of mass and angular momentum conservation problems)
is a serious geochemical problem. The thing is, continental crust
is geochemically obvious as a fractionation off lower material. So
the geochemistry of the earth has to have been unaffected by this
8 fold increase in mass over the last 300 My. This is difficult,
as the crust, for example, shows signs of elemental depletion or
enrichment across the periodic table based on how readily the elements
dissolve in to iron. Your magic matter-maker not only has to produce
iron/silicon/ whatever your preference, it must create the entire
periodic table with high selectivity as to both proportion and location
in the earth.

Back to the paleo-earth (of EErs) ... it's small, which is
no surprise exactly, but we're not used to thinking in cubic
terms. The former radius being half (or so) of the present
leaves us with a 3185 km radius spheroid, which seems respectable
at first glance. Let us consider, though, an outer shell of
matter (i.e. crust plus some distance of upper mantle) and
ask how thick it has to be to have the volume of that 3185
km spheroid. Turns out to be a mere 277 km -- a shell from
the current surface to a depth of only 277 km has the volume
of the entire paleo-earth (of EErs). This is not even nearly
deep enough to reach one of the more prominent upper layers
in the earth's structure (the 670 km discontinuity).

As to particles ... neutrinos are really your only bet for
getting something kms below the surface of the earth. Photons
get absorbed too readily. High energy ones, like X-rays,
are absorbed by the upper atmosphere. Fairly low energy
ones, the visible and infrared, can make it through most of
the atmosphere, but have an absorption depth of no more than
tens of meters (in the ocean, in the right portion of the
visible, and only if there's little alive there, you can
get to something like 50 m, otherwise you're looking at a
fraction of a mm). Charged anythings don't penetrate very
far through liquid or solid, so that lets out the muons.

Neutrinos, though, are poor candidates for your matter-creators.
As they interact only through the weak nuclear force, you have to
have a nucleus present for them to act on. And even then, they
only change flavor of a nucleon, not create one _de novo_.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

.

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