Re: Meet the real Intelligent Design

"NITRO" <NITRO777@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Cheezits wrote:
"NITRO" <NITRO777@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Cheezits wrote:
"NITRO" <NITRO777@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Kermit wrote:
[etc.]
So tell me, in Creation science, what result do you expect to
get when you replace some grape genes with other grape genes?

No answer?
Its a strawman, I never said that there would be different results,
I just expressed my general boredom for what Mr. Kolkers refers to
as "real intelligent design".

However boring you may find it, what he posted *is* an example of
actual intelligent design.
[etc.]
Its not boring at all, I should probably clarify myself a little. In
the context in which it was presented, as an alternative to the
Intelligent Design of the Universe, I completely disagree.

You disagree that it represents a case of intelligent design? Whoever
said anything about the design of the universe anyway? This is about the
design of life.

In my view
the grape has already been designed, to call these results design
seems to be plagarism to a small degree.

THE grape, what is that? There are lots of different sorts of grapes.
He was talking about designing a new grape.

[etc.]
what if we produced an organism using genetic engineering that could
not
have evolved any other way.

I am also pretty curious as to how you would determine that an
organism could not have evolved any other way, that seems impossible
to me just by definition. How would you be able to determine this?.

That I don't know. But it strikes me as the sort of question that could
be answered by a real theory of ID.

[etc.]
On the contrary, I would have probably been
amazed if someone had put cat genes inside a fern's genome, and
some other strange results occured.

Is there anything in creationist theory that would tell you what to
expect as a result? Or why God hasn't done that sort of thing
himself?

No, according to the Bible everything has an original immutable form.

I'm not aware of any verse that actually says that in so many words.

Permanence and absolutes are a reality for us.

Phrases like "a reality *for us*" indicate to me that you are talking
about something that is just fantasy. Permanence and absolutes don't
exist in the real world. Nothing lasts forever. Living systems change
over time. I don't know why someone would find it necessary to believe
things that are obviously not true.

Thats probably why we
are so often accused of being idiots, because we like to believe that
there are absolute types, we like to believe in absolute morality,
absolute gender and one specific path to truth.

Again, that's what you "like to believe". This is what separates
scientists from religious fanatics. This is also why I trust the
findings of science over superstition. There is no evidence for any
absolute types, or morality, or absolute gender (where did that come
from?) so the fact that you believe in them all the same carries no
weight with me. All it indicates is your own need for absolutes.

[etc.]
Some people are
foolish, but thats by choice.

I would think it foolish to cling to a belief just because it's what you
want, rather than what is known to be true. But what do I know.

I shouldnt have been so flippant with the fern/cat example, but that
would perhaps show the type of mastery over genetics that science
would have to show in order to convince me that we are really starting
to understand the intricate workings of life.

I don't know that it's such a flippant example. In fact, researchers in
genetic engineering may be doing just that sort of thing - see
http://tinyurl.com/ekzb2 for example. Now, we may not be performing
"intelligent design" on the scale that creationists envision, where
*all* of life is the result of direct engineering. And we may not know
what all the effects of such engineering will be in the long run. But
it is design, as opposed to producing change the evolutionary way.

Sue
--
"It's not smart or correct, but it's one of the things that
make us what we are." - Red Green

.

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