Re: Claim CI001.1.1: Intelligent design may be taught in U.S. public schools


jgrisham@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
catshark wrote:
The Supreme Court has just come down with a case, _Garcetti v.
Ceballos_ that may be relevant to this.

<http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003029639_scotus31.html>

The Discovery Institute's claim is that individual teachers have a
freedom of speech/academic freedom right to teach ID if they choose.
The Court, in an opinion by Anthony Kennedy (joined in by Chief Justice
John Roberts and Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel
Alito) held:

When a citizen enters government service, the citizen
by necessity must accept certain limitations on his or
her freedom.

And:

The First Amendment does not prohibit managerial discipline
based on an employee's expressions made pursuant to
official responsibilities.

This may be bad news for whistle-blowing but it looks like it pretty
much ends the idea that there is a right for individual teachers to
defy school board policy on the teaching of science (or, conversely,
that school boards can hide behind the teacher's Constitutional rights
to have ID taught _sub rosa_).

I find it absurd that science teachers should be suspect of teaching ID
or that they at any time could choose to evoke the 1st amendment as
protection to do so. It's called "insubordination" and is ample cause
for any public employee to be terminated.

Good, John. You be sure to tell the Discovery Institute to stop
advising teachers to do that:

<http://www.arn.org/docs/dewolf/guidebook.htm>


You might remember Mr Scopes, who insubordinately ignored his school
board and was terminated for teaching some wild theory, lawfully
unacceptable in 1925.

As Dana has already pointed out, Scopes wasn't diciplined by the school
board but, instead, arrested under a state law that was only belatedly
found to be unconstitutional.

I know the way you guys spin things that it might
have escaped your attention that Scopes lost "the Monkey Trial" because
he had been insubordinate. But what applied to Scopes in 1925, applies
to all teachers, ever since... Insubordination gets you fired!

As always, John, your history belongs to the Wayback Machine school of
historical research, entertaining but any correspondence with actual
facts is totally accidental.

In any case, whether teaching ID equals "insubordination" would depend
on the facts of the individual situation but one thing this ruling
should make clear is that the school board can be held liable for the
actions of the teachers, officially sanctioned or not, because they
clearly have the power to prevent them from violating the Establishment
clause without fear of a competing claim of a constitutional right to
teach it.


Sure! You could have a rambling conspiracy led by school boards,
district administrators, science department heads and select science
teachers teaching the world is flat and when you get to the edge, you
fall off. And the kids don't mention it and reporters don't report it
and it could all be perfectly hidden in the education bureaucracy. I'm
just saying that's a little unlikely.

I didn't say they would get away with it. But the DI might still lead
another school board astray and get it paying big bucks to the ACLU
because of it. They did it once, though they deny it. They can do it
again (and deny it again). The ones who lose the most will be the
kids.

--
---------------
J. Pieret
---------------

A concise definition of legal ethics:

" . . . having been bought a lawyer is supposed to stay bought."

-- Louann Miller --

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Claim CI001.1.1: Intelligent design may be taught in U.S. public schools
    ... much ends the idea that there is a right for individual teachers to ... I find it absurd that science teachers should be suspect of teaching ID ... It's called "insubordination" and is ample cause ... But what applied to Scopes in 1925, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Claim CI001.1.1: Intelligent design may be taught in U.S. public schools
    ... much ends the idea that there is a right for individual teachers to ... I find it absurd that science teachers should be suspect of teaching ID ... It's called "insubordination" and is ample cause ... But what applied to Scopes in 1925, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: For Cathy F
    ... Teachers leave them kids alone ... to be taught, that is the domain of the state and local school board, ... She complains that I did NOT see America's education system going down ...
    (alt.autos.toyota)
  • Re: For Cathy F
    ... Teachers leave them kids alone ... to be taught, that is the domain of the state and local school board, ... She complains that I did NOT see America's education system going down ...
    (alt.autos.toyota)
  • Re: Claim CI001.1.1: Intelligent design may be taught in U.S. public
    ... freedom of speech/academic freedom right to teach ID if they choose. ... much ends the idea that there is a right for individual teachers to ... defy school board policy on the teaching of science (or, conversely, ... It's called "insubordination" and is ample cause ...
    (talk.origins)