Re: Atheists are the biggest fools on Earth

On 2006-05-13, Jim Spaza <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Mark VandeWettering wrote:
On 2006-05-03, Jim Spaza <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Cheezits wrote:
AC <mightymartianca@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
AC wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
[etc.]
What are the odds that we see gravity having the present value or
anything near it? Well, if you look at the potential range of
values from infinite repulsion through zero gravity to infinite
attraction, I'd say the odds are infinitestimally small.

You haven't shown your work, and we're right back to the fine-tuning
argument, which I thought had been dealt a death blow because God's
still omnipotent.

OK. If you want a little math and some other info, then here's a
start...

http://www.geocities.com/worldview_3/mathprfcosmos.html
http://www.origins.org/articles/bradley_justsouniverse.html
http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/design_evidences/200406
_f
ine_tuning_for_life_on_earth.shtml

How can you make a statistical analysis with only one entity? Be
specifc, Jim.

According to the first link posted, the chance of gravity being what it
is about 1 in 1000. (Note that it doesn't say how they arrived at that
number either.) That's rather not quite the same as "infinitesimally
small", is it? :-D

Did you read that post or just skim over it? I said that even if
gravity could only have 1,000 different values then the chance that
this universe is the way it is...is 0.1%.

Sigh. No. It isn't.

I have a jar. In it are 100,000 balls. 990,001 of them have zeros on
them. The remaining balls have one of the numbers from 1-999 on them.
We will now play a game. You think the odds are 1000-1 for any ball
coming up. Whenever you draw a 0, you give me $1000, and whenever
you draw anything else, I give you $1000. Let's play for an hour or two.

In your scenario, I'd lose money big time. You're stacking the jar to
suit your needs by having INTELLIGENTLY controlling the numbers on the
balls.

How about this: The universe can only support life if one special ball
is chosen. And you have 100,000 balls in the jar. What are the odds
that you choose the right one to support life?

And we haven't even talked about the jars for nuclear, electromagnetic,
etc. forces.

But you have no idea what the actual number of balls are that actually
mean that the universe can support life. It might be on in 100,000. It
might be 999,999 out of 100,000. Or, it might even be 100,000 out of
100,000.

I did it just to make the
math easy. Now, we know that there is no known restriction on gravity.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

OK. Why not consider both possibilities? No reason not to.

You are the one who isn't considering possibilities.

Thus, we can theorize that gravity MIGHT be able to have been any
amount from zero to near-infinity.

We can theorize that, but we have no idea what the probability of it
being true actually is.

We must work with what we know and revise our theories as time goes
along.

We don't know _anything_ about the probability distribution from which the
values of these universal constants is drawn, and yet you feel justified
in picking on particular distribution and then drawing conclusions from it.

Even when he shows his (really someone else's) work, it still doesn't
show what he claims.

[etc.]
But neither is just pulling numbers out of your head and prancing
arguments from incredulity constitute a statistical analysis. Do
you have one or not?

Yep. I pasted some links above. These are just a few that are out
there on the internet.

And all are simply arguments from incredulity masked in math.

They can be summed up as saying "Isn't it amazing that we *just
happened* to evolve in a universe where the conditions are just right!"
Mathematically they prove nothing, as usual.

Sue
--
Full bibliographic references to the peer-reviewed
scientific literature, please. - Herb Huston



.

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