Re: Atheists are the biggest fools on Earth


Mark VandeWettering wrote:
On 2006-05-03, Jim Spaza <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Cheezits wrote:
AC <mightymartianca@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
AC wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
[etc.]
What are the odds that we see gravity having the present value or
anything near it? Well, if you look at the potential range of
values from infinite repulsion through zero gravity to infinite
attraction, I'd say the odds are infinitestimally small.

You haven't shown your work, and we're right back to the fine-tuning
argument, which I thought had been dealt a death blow because God's
still omnipotent.

OK. If you want a little math and some other info, then here's a
start...

http://www.geocities.com/worldview_3/mathprfcosmos.html
http://www.origins.org/articles/bradley_justsouniverse.html
http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/design_evidences/200406
_f
ine_tuning_for_life_on_earth.shtml

How can you make a statistical analysis with only one entity? Be
specifc, Jim.

According to the first link posted, the chance of gravity being what it
is about 1 in 1000. (Note that it doesn't say how they arrived at that
number either.) That's rather not quite the same as "infinitesimally
small", is it? :-D

Did you read that post or just skim over it? I said that even if
gravity could only have 1,000 different values then the chance that
this universe is the way it is...is 0.1%.

Sigh. No. It isn't.

I have a jar. In it are 100,000 balls. 990,001 of them have zeros on
them. The remaining balls have one of the numbers from 1-999 on them.
We will now play a game. You think the odds are 1000-1 for any ball
coming up. Whenever you draw a 0, you give me $1000, and whenever
you draw anything else, I give you $1000. Let's play for an hour or two.

In your scenario, I'd lose money big time. You're stacking the jar to
suit your needs by having INTELLIGENTLY controlling the numbers on the
balls.

How about this: The universe can only support life if one special ball
is chosen. And you have 100,000 balls in the jar. What are the odds
that you choose the right one to support life?

And we haven't even talked about the jars for nuclear, electromagnetic,
etc. forces.


I did it just to make the
math easy. Now, we know that there is no known restriction on gravity.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

OK. Why not consider both possibilities? No reason not to.


Thus, we can theorize that gravity MIGHT be able to have been any
amount from zero to near-infinity.

We can theorize that, but we have no idea what the probability of it
being true actually is.

We must work with what we know and revise our theories as time goes
along.


Even when he shows his (really someone else's) work, it still doesn't
show what he claims.

[etc.]
But neither is just pulling numbers out of your head and prancing
arguments from incredulity constitute a statistical analysis. Do
you have one or not?

Yep. I pasted some links above. These are just a few that are out
there on the internet.

And all are simply arguments from incredulity masked in math.

They can be summed up as saying "Isn't it amazing that we *just
happened* to evolve in a universe where the conditions are just right!"
Mathematically they prove nothing, as usual.

Sue
--
Full bibliographic references to the peer-reviewed
scientific literature, please. - Herb Huston


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Atheists are the biggest fools on Earth
    ... values from infinite repulsion through zero gravity to infinite ... According to the first link posted, the chance of gravity being what it ... The remaining balls have one of the numbers from 1-999 on them. ... The universe can only support life if one special ball ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Atheists are the biggest fools on Earth
    ... values from infinite repulsion through zero gravity to infinite ... According to the first link posted, the chance of gravity being what it ... The remaining balls have one of the numbers from 1-999 on them. ... The universe can only support life if one special ball ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Atheists are the biggest fools on Earth
    ... values from infinite repulsion through zero gravity to infinite ... According to the first link posted, the chance of gravity being what it ... The remaining balls have one of the numbers from 1-999 on them. ... The universe can only support life if one special ball ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: infinity
    ... > balls, so the number of balls can never decrease to zero under any ... Then it must either increase to zero or jump to zero, ... > assumptions about infinite sets and numbers which are not necessarily ... Then the entire gedankenexperiment does the same, ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: Atheists are the biggest fools on Earth
    ... values from infinite repulsion through zero gravity to infinite ... According to the first link posted, the chance of gravity being what it ... The remaining balls have one of the numbers from 1-999 on them. ... amount from zero to near-infinity. ...
    (talk.origins)