Re: "Racial" medicine


r norman wrote:

On 6 May 2006 07:09:53 -0700, "Vend" <vend82@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


r norman wrote:

Of course I am politically motivated, a fact that I have never tried
to conceal. I also separate the facts of science from the way that
those facts are interpreted or possibly abused by others. Do you
think that scientists have no responsibility for the way others use or
abuse their results? Have you not learned anything from the very
sorry spectacle of eugenics morphing into genocide? from the role that
physicists played in the development of nuclear weapons, especially
fusion bombs? from the attempt to turn theories of inheritance of
intelligence into educational policy?

A better understanding of human intelligence, including its inheritance
may allow us to create more effective educational policies.

Note 1, below.

It is no longer acceptable for
science to plow blindly ahead with ideas and ignore the consequences.

Very obvious appeal to consequences.
It is a fallacy.

Note 2, below.

That is exactly the reason why I introduced this thread -- to try to
educate people (or at least get people thinking) about two distinct
notions: first the fact about the inability to divide humanity into
what are traditionally called "races",

Ok

second the fact that the abuse
of such racial notions has caused such an enormous evil in the world
in the past that we must be conscious of any attempt to recreate it
and actively work to counteract it. The first is science, the second
is our responsibility as decent human beings (and ethical scientists).

Many people abused the notions of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. Do
this mean that they are false?

Note 3, below.

You, and most of the people replying on the reality of "race", see an
"obviously black" person on the street and another "obviously white"
person and say that race is clearly defined. What you do not see are
the millions of people that are neither black nor white nor yellow
but something else. That, plus the fact already pointed out, that
skin color is not a good marker for many other genetic characters, is
much of the reason why your notion of race is scientifically invalid.

Now I question you: what possibly political, possibly social reason
do you carry around inside your head to cause you to believe so
strongly in racial separations?

The question wasn't if races should be separed, it was if races do
exist.

Note 4, below.

This is a very clear example of confusing the issues.

1) A better understanding of the learning process (I do not know what
is meant by "intelligence" -- it is a word as poorly defined as
"race") can lead to better educational practices.

Ok

Basing educational
practices on the race of the student is abuse. Basing educational
practices on the abilities of the student is wise. Test the student
to determine those abilities; don't look at skin color!

My comment was on inhertance of intelligence, not races.

2) There is no fallacy in scientists considering the consequences of
their studies. I did not ever suggest altering or denying the
science, only educating people about the proper use and potential
abuse of the science.

"It is no longer acceptable for science to plow blindly ahead with
ideas and ignore the consequences."
I thought that you were implying that science should not research some
topics for the fear of unpleasant and/or dangerous results.

3) I don't know what you mean by "people abused the notions of
Relativity and Quantum Mechanics". I assume it is a hypothetical
notion rather than a description of reality.

Some people misused the counter-intuitive concepts of Relativity and
Quantum Mechanics to give fallacious justifications of various
paranormal and supernatural belifs.

Some other people correctly used Relativity and Quantum Mechanics to
produce nuclear weapons.

It is not the notion of
"race" I object to; it is the false claim that racial distinctions
truly exist

Ok.

and then going on to use those distinctions for evil
purposes. I object to the abuse of the notion of race, not the fact
that many species are divided into races or subspecies.

I think that it is inappropriate to mix the two issues.

4) I am stating what many biologists, anthropologists, and
sociologists state: that a classification of humans by "race" does not
exist. So that is not the question.

I think it was.
I don't think that human races do exist, but the discussion about it
should not be charged with moral implications.

The question is: why do so
many people insist that it does exist? What motivation compels you to
deny this scientific fact in the same way that others deny the fact of
evolution or of anthropogenic global warming or of antrhopogenic
destruction of species habitat and the consequent reduction of
biodiversity or the fact that ....

Some people may be genuinely dubious about the claim that human races
don't exist. After all, scientific claims are undefinitive.

Some people may be simply ignorant ando ther may have extra-scientific
motivations (= they are racist).

I don't know if there is any anthropological study on the causes of
racism, but I suspect there are.

.

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