Re: "Racial" medicine

On 7 May 2006 11:40:16 -0700, "Ben Standeven"
<berry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


r norman wrote:
On 6 May 2006 07:09:53 -0700, "Vend" <vend82@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


r norman wrote:

Of course I am politically motivated, a fact that I have never tried
to conceal. I also separate the facts of science from the way that
those facts are interpreted or possibly abused by others. Do you
think that scientists have no responsibility for the way others use or
abuse their results? Have you not learned anything from the very
sorry spectacle of eugenics morphing into genocide? from the role that
physicists played in the development of nuclear weapons, especially
fusion bombs? from the attempt to turn theories of inheritance of
intelligence into educational policy?

A better understanding of human intelligence, including its inheritance
may allow us to create more effective educational policies.

1) A better understanding of the learning process (I do not know what
is meant by "intelligence" -- it is a word as poorly defined as
"race") can lead to better educational practices. Basing educational
practices on the race of the student is abuse. Basing educational
practices on the abilities of the student is wise. Test the student
to determine those abilities; don't look at skin color!

What's skin color got to do with anything? Inheritance of intelligence
is
supposed to apply within individual "races" too, after all...


It is no longer acceptable for
science to plow blindly ahead with ideas and ignore the consequences.

Very obvious appeal to consequences.
It is a fallacy.

2) There is no fallacy in scientists considering the consequences of
their studies. I did not ever suggest altering or denying the
science, only educating people about the proper use and potential
abuse of the science.


What exactly does this mean? Should Watson and Crick have included a
section in their papers condemning genetic profiling by insurance
companies? Genetic engineering? Should the Wright brothers have told
people not to fly aircraft into skyscrapers?


That is exactly the reason why I introduced this thread -- to try to
educate people (or at least get people thinking) about two distinct
notions: first the fact about the inability to divide humanity into
what are traditionally called "races",

Ok

second the fact that the abuse
of such racial notions has caused such an enormous evil in the world
in the past that we must be conscious of any attempt to recreate it
and actively work to counteract it. The first is science, the second
is our responsibility as decent human beings (and ethical scientists).

Many people abused the notions of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. Do
this mean that they are false?

3) I don't know what you mean by "people abused the notions of
Relativity and Quantum Mechanics".

I don't know exactly what you mean by "abuse"; it seems so vague that
"race" and "intelligence" are models of clarity by comparison. But you
suggested that
the atom bomb was an abuse of science; so it would seem to qualify also
as an
abuse of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics (although this connection is
debatable).

[...]

You, and most of the people replying on the reality of "race", see an
"obviously black" person on the street and another "obviously white"
person and say that race is clearly defined. What you do not see are
the millions of people that are neither black nor white nor yellow
but something else. That, plus the fact already pointed out, that
skin color is not a good marker for many other genetic characters, is
much of the reason why your notion of race is scientifically invalid.

Now I question you: what possibly political, possibly social reason
do you carry around inside your head to cause you to believe so
strongly in racial separations?

The question wasn't if races should be separed, it was if races do
exist.

4) I am stating what many biologists, anthropologists, and
sociologists state: that a classification of humans by "race" does not
exist. So that is not the question.

There are also many biologists, anthropologists, and sociologists who
state that a classification of humans by "race" does exist. So it is
the
question after all.

The question is: why do so many people insist that it does exist?

Perhaps they are honestly deluded; this is not an uncommon occurence
in the scientific realm. Or at least, that is what scientists would
have us
believe...

All in all, I'd say that you're the one conflating unrelated concepts.

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

I hope Santayana's maxim is false in this instance. Are you totally
unaware of what has happened in the past half century or so (or even
far earlier in the case of eugenics and social darwinism)?

Incidentally, the "fact" I am stating is not whether some notion
(however misguided and misinformed) of "race" exists, it is whether
the human species is subdivided into biological races. The fact of
racial division as a social/political/economic/legal/societal
construct is a sad fact of life.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: "Racial" medicine
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  • Re: "Racial" medicine
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